Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Not Guilty!
Townhall.com ^ | July 10, 2011 | Ken Connor

Posted on 07/10/2011 8:46:37 AM PDT by Kaslin

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 201-220221-240241-260261-265 next last
To: DoughtyOne

The behavior and demeanor of the jurors is incredible too.

When a person is picked for a jury, they are supposed to go into a trial with the presumption of innocence of the defendant.

Both sides present their case, rebuttal and closing statements, at that point most people have made up their minds or are very close to it.

To hear these jurors say they believe she is guilty but found her not guilty tells me they didn’t follow the law, didn’t do their job and spent no time looking at the overwhelming evidence the state presented to clear up their questions.

It should be obvious to anyone that an entire jury failed to do their job when every single one believed the defendants guilt and still voted to acquit. If the state didn’t prove guilt the entire jury, following the law, could not find for innocence.


241 posted on 07/11/2011 4:50:36 PM PDT by Brytani (Liberals - destroying America since 1776)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 136 | View Replies]

To: worriedinoregon

As politically incorrect as it is, I have to agree that the little girl is in a better place. With a nutjob grandma and a psycho mother, she wouldn’t have stood a chance and would’ve been a mental case - as well as a liar, thief and slattern like her mother.


242 posted on 07/11/2011 7:49:54 PM PDT by gop_gene
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: discostu
"Problem is they don’t have the evidence. They can’t even say how the child was killed, much less put Casey’s hands as doing the actions that did it. The evidence is supposed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. When the prosecuting attorney says they don’t know how or when the death happened the evidence isn’t proving much of anything."

Nope, that's wrong. The trial wasn't a science experiment. You don't have to have a scientifically proven precise sequence showing exactly what the defendent did. It is not necessary to prove a specific medical cause of death at some specific instant. This is what I believe was the fundamental misunderstanding the led the jury.

The question for the jury was, did Casey kill the child? It doesn't matter how she did it, or what time she did it. Just, did she do it? Yes, that has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But that does not mean scientifically and technically.

There is no *reasonable* scenario except that Casey did it. All of her actions show that she did it. It is *reasonable* doubt. Not irrational doubt.

243 posted on 07/11/2011 7:55:47 PM PDT by mlo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 237 | View Replies]

To: kcvl
But, that’s okay, the little attention whore will be back in court, just like OJ, count on it.

I agree. No way is it possible for someone the likes of Casey to stay out of big trouble for the rest of her life. Given all her major personality disorders it's a guarantee. As with O.J., Drew Peterson and Joran Van Der Sloot who got very brazen since they got away with murder, Casey won't be able to help feeling like "teflon" and will trip up as they did.

244 posted on 07/11/2011 8:00:19 PM PDT by gop_gene
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 112 | View Replies]

To: mlo

They aren’t lacking a precise sequence, they’re lacking any sequence. They don’t know what was done to kill the kid at all, and they don’t know when it happened at all, and they can’t put anybody’s hands on the unknown action that killed the kid. To get a murder conviction the prosecution needs to be able to say “person X did action Y at around time T which lead to the death of the victim”. There’s no misunderstanding from the jury, when the best you’ve got is “person X did something we’re not sure about in a time frame we’re completely unclear on” you’re not going to get a murder conviction.

It DOES matter how she did it. Because if you can’t say how she did it you can’t say beyond a reasonable doubt THAT she did it.

Reasonable doubt doesn’t require the defense to have a good explanation, it just needs the prosecution to not have a good explanation. And the prosecution has NO explanation. They tried to convict on guy instinct, and while I agree with that guy instinct that ain’t evidence.


245 posted on 07/11/2011 8:45:29 PM PDT by discostu (Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 243 | View Replies]

To: discostu

How do I say this without being mean?  Your reasoning skills are non existent.  You don't own up to what this guy has tried to do, and you don't own up to what you have done either.

Then you have the gall to tell me, "Don’t bother to post again unless you’re limiting to ONLY what I wrote with absolutely no additional content from your own head. It’s simply not worth my time, or yours."

Words have meaning.  You can't toss this "STUFF" out there and then claim it has no impact, no significance, doesn't really mean what your saying.  If you don't want to get called on what you're saying, don't say it.  If you don't want to get called on what you're infering, don't infer it.

They aren’t describing people that disagree with the jury in ANY manner, they’re simply pointing out that they have a different set of information than the jury.

You can keep spouting this nonsense if you like, but I'm going to keep pointing out where he did this very thing until you can grasp it, or fess up.

Many who watched the trial on TV – and who were not constrained from taking into account inadmissible evidence, the punditry of various talking heads, or the overwhelming public sentiment against Ms. Anthony – have been critical of the jury's verdict.

They aren’t describing people that disagree with the jury in ANY manner...   Oh really?  Perhaps you can explain what species these subjects are members of then.  "Many have been critical of the jury's verdict.Was that zebras, rabbits, horses, cats, chickens?  What type of animal was it?  I'd like to know.  I think others might like to know too.  Oh that's right, it was humans, sometimes referred to as people, here referred to as "many", as in many people.

Is there any descriptor of these people?  Well yes there is.  They are people who were not constrained.  What were they not constrained from doing? They were not constrained from taking into account inadmissible evidence.  Okay, we're getting somewhere here.  Were they known to have been unrestrained in any other manner?  Well yes, they were unrestrained from listening to various talking heads or listening to the overwhelming public sentiment against Ms. Anthony.  Well, we do have some descriptors here after all don't we.  These people were desribed as having heard information the jury didn't.

This is getting good.  We know now your statement wasn't true.  These people were described.

Your partial statement, "They aren’t describing people that disagree with the jury in ANY manner,..." is non-factual.  Have you already developed your denial?  Have you put it into the return post yet?  Take time here to do that here.  I don't want you to forget.  I'll make a nice break so you don't lose your place.
.
.
.
.
.

Are you done?  Okay.  Take an extra minute to finish up.  I'll be here.

It IS presenting a balanced view,

Do you know what the word balance means?  I'm curious.  There are a number of descriptions?  Oops, sorry to bring up a sore topic "descriptions", or defininitions.

Here are my favorites.  You don't mind do you?

1. a state of equilibrium or equipoise; equal distribution of weight, amount, etc.
2. something used to produce equilibrium; counterpoise.

For something to be balanced, you have to provide a presentation that has an equal distribution of weight.  If you want describe people, you need to provide your view of them, and then provide the alternative view.  Only by doing that can you attain balance.

If you're going to mention one alternative, you need to mention the other or others.  You can't provide only one explanation for something and then call it balanced.  Do you understand this concept?

When the writer described these people, he described them as only being able to come to the conclusion they did, by his narrowly focused description.

Is it possibly someone could come to conclude that the defendant was guilty, without being a member of the group this guy described in his unbalanced manner?  Yes.  His bias blinded him.

People could watch the trial and determine for themselves that the defendent was guilty.

Let's stop here again.  I want to give you every chance to be able to think about this, let it soak in.

.
.
.
.
.
Okay now, please point out to me where the writer explained that people could come to a conclusion that the defendant was guilty, without taking into consideration inadmissible evidence, without watching the punditry of talking heads, or paying attention to the mood of the public.  Let's give you more time here.   I don't want to rush you unfairly.
.
.
.
.
.
Okay great.  Please quote for me the words this writer used to describe the people who disagreed with the jury, but did not listen to pundits, inadmissible evidence, or public opinion adverse to Casey Anthony.  I'll wait right here while you dig that up and post it in your response.  Remember, you said the presentation was balanced.  Prove it.  Here's the big chance you've been waiting for.
.
.
.
.
.

...it’s not prejudicial in any way.

Do you know what the word prejudice means?  I'm curious.  There are a number of descriptions?  Oops, there we go again.  Sorry.  There are a number of defininitions.

Here is my favorite.  You don't mind do you?  Jolly good old chap.

1. Unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

Wow.  Anotherwords describing a group of people in one manner, and failing to mention there could be an alternative view, would be evidence of what?  Let me give you a moment...  Think real hard.  That's right, a prejudicial presentation.  Who could have seen that coming?
.
.
.
.
.

Well, so far we have seen people described when you said they weren't.  We have addressed the lack of balance when you said it was there.  And now we find prejudice where you said it didn't exist.

This is a lot to take in.  You probably need to moment to deny any of this took place.  I can wait.  Hurry back.  Okay... take your time.  Deny real good now.
.
.
.
.
.

At some point I need to bring up something you're not going to like.  I guess now is as good a time as any.

The prosecuting team, the local District Attorney, and the judge all found reasonable cause for Casey to be held over for trial.  Each of these entities were able to review the evidence prior to trial.  Each of them found compelling evidence to justify moving on.  None of them took inadmissible evidence into account.  The District Attorney thought there was solid evidence excluding the inadmissible evidence.  The prosecuting team also came to the conclusion that there was adequate evidence excluding inadmissable evidence.  The judge thought there was adequate evidence exclucing inadmissible evidence.

If this case is like any other, the defense attorney made motions to have this case dismissed.  Did the judge dismiss the case due to lack of evidence?

Of course this doesn't mean that there was no other conclusion to be had, but the premise that not enough evidence existed, is patently false.

I'm really weighing this next part.  Should I or shouldn't I?  Well, I hope you're up to it.
<>One thing these three entities had in common, they didn't follow punditry and the talking heads or the public's opinion of Casey Anthony.  Do ya need a moment here?  Of course.  I understand.
.
.
.
.
.
<>Do you want to get any denials down on paper here?  Okay, take a few minutes.  I'll be here.
.
.
.
.

I’m grasping things just fine,...  Weeelllllll...

...what I’m not doing is making crap up. 

1. those who disagreed with the jury were not described
2. that was a balanced presentation
3. no prejudice was introduced

Yep, other than the discenters being described, you're right on the money with number one.
Yep, other than the fact that a balanced presentationw wasn't made, you're dead on target on number two also.
Yep, other than the fact that a prejudicial one-sided presentation was made, you're third claim is accurate too.

Who could possibly say that you make crap up and post it here?

Okay, we're in agreement so far.  /s  Good.  Do ya want to take a minute?  Better yet, when you can gasp this much, we'll move on.

As for not responding to you addressing our disagreement on this matter, this is a forum where the premise is an open discussion of issues.  If you don't want to be challenged for making untrue bombastic comments, don't make them.  Go ahead and respond when you realize what type of forum you're on.  It may take you a while, but I'll be here.


246 posted on 07/12/2011 12:29:23 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (F me, you, everybody, the new Dem/Pubie compromise. No debt reduction, + wild spending forever...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 240 | View Replies]

To: Dilbert San Diego

Thoughtful post... and sadly true.


247 posted on 07/12/2011 12:40:09 AM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: He Rides A White Horse

Nancy “dis” Grace has been cashing in for quite some time. She covers her blood money with her hearts and flowers for the troops and children she says she wants to protect.... she is all about the fame and the sensationalism.


248 posted on 07/12/2011 12:43:49 AM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: GrandJediMasterYoda

I say good for the single mom. The kids exist, they are what they are and despite the inconvenience to others, a right to travel.


249 posted on 07/12/2011 12:49:38 AM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Brytani

Brytani, that last sentence left me a little confused. I think I know what you meant, but you may want to redraft it for folks. (either that or I’ve had an acute attack of dense) ;^)

If you think this woman was guilty, there is a mountain of evidence there to make it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt ot you.

What these jurors are stating, is a lie. They aren’t mournful of the verdict. They don’t think she was guilty, because few of them took notes or paid attention during the trial.

They are now saying they thought she was guilty, but the evidence wouldn’t justify a guilty verdict, because they want the public to think they identified with their views.

No they didn’t. Hogwash!


250 posted on 07/12/2011 12:51:56 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (F me, you, everybody, the new Dem/Pubie compromise. No debt reduction, + wild spending forever...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 241 | View Replies]

To: kcvl

A resort?... with your “bring your own ice chest?”


251 posted on 07/12/2011 12:56:49 AM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 190 | View Replies]

To: antceecee
Nancy “dis” Grace has been cashing in for quite some time. She covers her blood money with her hearts and flowers for the troops and children she says she wants to protect.... she is all about the fame and the sensationalism

It really gets schmaltzy at times. The caller, "Oh Nancy you are the best thing since Jesus.". You know what I mean.

I believe I read or heard that her fiancee was murdered. Could explain her behavior.

252 posted on 07/12/2011 3:01:21 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse ((((unite))))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 248 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

We’re all done. You’re reading into what I said, again. Which means you’re actually arguing with yourself. If you want to argue with yourself fine, but keep me out of it.


253 posted on 07/12/2011 7:14:00 AM PDT by discostu (Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 246 | View Replies]

To: discostu
"And it’s a valid thing to remind people of, people tend to forget that we aren’t all operating from the same pool of information."

Just how much more stupid than you two do you think everyone else is anyway?  The writer and you ride in on your white horses to the rescue of all the people out there supposedly too dumb to know that some people have access to televison and the juror's don't.  But you two, you two realize this, and are there for the rest of us.  Oh..., thank you! 

You come here to remind folks, to calm them down, to bring them back to reality.  Why they're too stupid to realize any of this on their own.  They're too stupid to realize what was presented to the jury and what wasn't.  They're too stupid to actually be able to form an accurate opinion of their own.  You can, but those other people actually can't.

Your tone is insulting.  You premise is insulting.  Your reluctance to admit what you're doing here is insulting.

As I told you before, if you don't want me to respond to you, don't respond to me.  If you don't want to be called on what you say, don't say it.  If you don't want to be called on what you infer, don't infer it.

And if you don't think you were making an inferrence when you wrote that, you're barely conscious.

It's almost as bad as scolding me, and then telling me I don't have a right to respond.  What person with any brains at all tries that?

If you want to continue this, or you don't, it's really your choice.  I'll be here all week...



254 posted on 07/12/2011 9:14:32 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (F me, you, everybody, the new Dem/Pubie compromise. No debt reduction, + wild spending forever...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 253 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

See this is an example of you seeing insults where there are none. I’m people, I forget that other people don’t have all the same information I have ALL THE TIME. Actually just yesterday, I found out I’d been doing it to my wife for months. We’d been waiting for a check to come in from a lagging source, I knew it hadn’t been cut yet but because of certain timing couldn’t take the next step, somehow I had fail to properly convey that so she thought it had been cut and lost in the mail, so she thought the next step was going to be much tougher (proving we hadn’t gotten it). Yesterday the timing hit I took the next step, check is on the way all is well, but she was surprised it was that easy.

So no my tone isn’t insulting, the premise isn’t insulting, and nothing about the statement puts me (who does exactly what I described) above anybody else. All of the insult is coming from how you are deliberately choosing to read it. There’s nothing for me to “admit” for I have insulted no one. Now maybe you should admit you’re reading extra into stuff.


255 posted on 07/12/2011 10:09:55 AM PDT by discostu (Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 254 | View Replies]

To: discostu
See this is an example of you seeing insults where there are none.  Dicostu, your intent has nothing to do with it.  Your comment is none the less insulting.  You don't want it to be taken that way.  You don't want to admit what it implies.  I understand that.  It's still insulting.

I’m people,...  You are a person, that is part of a group loosely referred to as the people.  I agree with that.  What you have done though, separates you from the people you are trying to inform.  "I know that you have access to information the jury doesn't have, and I think you need to know."  Dicostu, the very mention of this places you in a pseudo superior position.  I know.  You don't.  I understand.  You don't.  I am smart enough to understand what this means.  You aren't.  WHO DOESN'T KNOW THIS?  WE ALL DO.  You're not providing a service here.  You're dishing out an insult.  It's not really that big of a deal, but if you're going to push back when I point this out to you, it's going to look bigger and bigger and bigger.  It's pointless to deny reality.

I forget that other people don’t have all the same information I have ALL THE TIME.  Okay great.  The problem is, EVERYONE OUT HERE KNOWS WHAT YOU KNOW.  EVERYONE OUT HERE IS ABLE TO REASON WHAT YOU HAVE.  NOBODY NEEDS TO BE INFORMED.  NOBODY IS MAKING THE CLAIM THE JURY KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DO.  WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE JURY HERE.  WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NORMAL PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND I.  WE DON'T NEED YOUR "NEWS FLASH" THAT THE JURY DOESN'T HAVE ACCESS TO INFORMATION WE DO/DID.  WE ALREADY KNOW IT, AND YOU'RE INFORMING US ABOUT THAT IS CONDESCENDING.

Actually just yesterday, I found out I’d been doing it to my wife for months. We’d been waiting for a check to come in from a lagging source, I knew it hadn’t been cut yet but because of certain timing couldn’t take the next step, somehow I had fail to properly convey that so she thought it had been cut and lost in the mail, so she thought the next step was going to be much tougher (proving we hadn’t gotten it). Yesterday the timing hit I took the next step, check is on the way all is well, but she was surprised it was that easy.  Look, that's a charming story.  It reveals a situaiton where you didn't tell your wife all the information.  I understand that.  Every member of the public is aware of what the writer and you are seeking to tell them.  They all know the jury doesn't have access to the information they do.  Who in the Sam Hell are your trying to inform of this commonly recognized concept?  Who doesn't know this?

Look, on this forum we recognize that there are members of the public who aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.  That does not mean that everyone is stupid besides you and the writer.  It doesn't mean that you two need to inform us of what the jury knows vs what we know.  WE ALREADY KNOW THIS.  We're not some stupid dreggs of life simply because we think there was enough evidence to convict Casey Anthony, and we don't need some thought police person to come along and categorize us as people not smart enough to make reasoned determinations.

So no my tone isn’t insulting, the premise isn’t insulting, and nothing about the statement puts me (who does exactly what I described) above anybody else. All of the insult is coming from how you are deliberately choosing to read it. There’s nothing for me to “admit” for I have insulted no one. Now maybe you should admit you’re reading extra into stuff.  Dicostu, is it possible for you to grasp that people are smart enough out here, to understand the same things you do, without your help?  If not, then I'm sorry for you.  If so, then just admit it.


256 posted on 07/12/2011 1:14:03 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (F me, you, everybody, the new Dem/Pubie compromise. No debt reduction, + wild spending forever...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 255 | View Replies]

To: discostu

I didn’t mean to misspell your name on purpose. From memory I thought it was Dicostu, not Discostu.


257 posted on 07/12/2011 1:15:07 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (F me, you, everybody, the new Dem/Pubie compromise. No debt reduction, + wild spending forever...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 255 | View Replies]

To: discostu
"They aren’t lacking a precise sequence, they’re lacking any sequence. They don’t know what was done to kill the kid at all, and they don’t know when it happened at all, and they can’t put anybody’s hands on the unknown action that killed the kid."

Not true, but you are still missing the point. There does not have to be a scientific test showing a connection between Casey and the cause of death to get a conviction.

"To get a murder conviction the prosecution needs to be able to say “person X did action Y at around time T which lead to the death of the victim”."

No, they don't. The prosecution needs to present sufficient evidence to show that person X caused the death. That evidence *does not have to be forensics*.

"It DOES matter how she did it. Because if you can’t say how she did it you can’t say beyond a reasonable doubt THAT she did it."

As I've been saying, that is simply wrong. But it is the same error that I believe the jury made and resulted in their verdict. It is what the defense told them.

How she did it is not a required element. You can be sure she did it without knowing the precise method if all the other evidence says she must have done it.

"Reasonable doubt doesn’t require the defense to have a good explanation, it just needs the prosecution to not have a good explanation."

I never said the defense had to provide one. But there does have to be room for one. If there's no other reasonable explanation then there's no reasonable doubt.

"They tried to convict on guy instinct, and while I agree with that guy instinct that ain’t evidence."

No, they tried to convict on the evidence, but the jury didn't understand that all that evidence counted and it was their job to make reasonable inferences from it. They thought it should work like it does on CSI.

258 posted on 07/12/2011 1:28:19 PM PDT by mlo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 245 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

it is NOT insulting. Pointing out a NORMAL human incident that EVERY SINGLE PERSON that has EVER walked the face of the earth for more than a few years INCLUDING ME is NOT insulting to anyone EVER. It’s like pointing out that people go to the can. Not an insult. Unless someone desperately wants everything said to be an insult. Like you. We’re done. It’s over, I will not be reading another post from you on this threat under any circumstance. you want to be mad, go ahead, be mad, at yourself for acting like a complete ass.


259 posted on 07/12/2011 1:33:23 PM PDT by discostu (Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 256 | View Replies]

To: mlo

No it is true. I’ve got the point just fine. I’m not asking for a scientific test. I’m pointing out that if you can’t prove the cause of death you can’t proved WHO caused the death. It’s just that simple, any thinking otherwise is simply wrong.


260 posted on 07/12/2011 1:35:37 PM PDT by discostu (Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 258 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 201-220221-240241-260261-265 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson