Posted on 07/09/2011 6:52:15 PM PDT by T.L.Sink
C wouldn’t it be nice if posters stuck with the subject of the original post rather than bringing in irrelevant stuff.
I'm disappointed in you. You said you're responding to post #482 -- and in that post I clearly talk about "the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?" (That's the Jewish God, is it not?)
Note: I evaluate candidates on many issues & components. Their other-worldly worldviews are one of them.
As for the religions of various indigenous people groups around the world, I suppose you recognize that encompasses quite a few:
The Cargo cults
Native American traditional religions
Asian-based shamanistic religions
African animism & folk religions
Islamic influenced folk religions
Voodoo-related (Haiti; some Cagin areas in Louisiana, etc.)
Many/most of these are occultic;
most are polytheistic;
many/almost all have substituted idols in the place of the one true God.
Are you telling me you would not at least consider the open idolatry of a candidate? (And here I thought you believed in God -- and only one God) Or the occultic practices of a candidate?
Or if a candidate practiced voodooism -- the indigenous traditional religion of Haiti -- that wouldn't even come across your mind as at least one consideration among many? I'd like to hear you go on record here: "I, oneamericanvoice, would strongly consider voting for a voodoo presidential candidate."
A Freeper posted a Rasmussen poll less than about 3.5 years ago (late 2006) [see Election 2008: 43% Would Never Vote for Mormon Candidate (Rasmussen Poll) ]. According to that excerpt: The Rasmussen Reports survey found that 35% say that a candidate's faith and religious beliefs are very important in their voting decision. Another 27% say faith and religious beliefs are somewhat important. Ninety-two percent (92%) of Evangelical Christian voters consider a candidate's faith and beliefs important. On the partisan front, 78% of Republicans say that a candidate's faith is an important consideration, a view shared by 55% of Democrats. However, there is also a significant divide on this topic within the Democratic Party. Among minority Democrats, 71% consider faith and religious beliefs an important consideration for voting. Just 44% of white Democrats agree.
So…what % of the following groups found that a candidate’s faith and religious beliefs are an important consideration for voting?
(1) Americans: 62%
(2) Evangelical Christians: 92%
(3) Republicans: 78%
(4) Democrats: 55% [still a majority]
Tell us, oneamericanvoice: Are you condemning 78% of Republicans & 62% of Americans for considering the faith and religious beliefs of a candidate as important to their overall considerations?
I think posters need to start putting their forthright accusations where their lofty frowns upon others seem to be on these threads: So -- for you & any other posters -- please repeat after me:
"I, realize the FREEPERS I disagree with on these issues represent the great majority of Americans. I disagree with 92% of Evangelicals, 78% of Republicans, and 62% of Americans who have the audacity to consider the faith and religious beliefs of a candidate. I accuse these solid majorities of the following ."
Again, I deeply disappointed in you. Here, you have served our country and are such an advocate for others to do the same. And yet you flunk Constitutional history by misapplying it?
Point 1- RELIGION: Religion IS NOT a qualification or disqualification for public office; but it's certainly one quality of voter discernment among many others...namely, voting record, present position statements & rampant inconsistency of past position statements, social issues' stances, character, viability, scandal-free past, etc.
Article VI, section 3 of the Constitution is aimed at the…
(a) …candidate (must be of a certain age and must have resided in our country for a certain number of years)…
and (b) …the government so that religion does not become a disqualification to keep somebody otherwise eligible for running for public office.
Q Who is Article VI, section 3, not aimed at?
A The voter. Otherwise, voters would have to 100% disregard character, beliefs, other-dimensionly commitments, and spiritual discernment in weighing candidates. (And then posters like you might demand “proof” that voters didn’t militate vs. your constitutional interpretation and mandate/impose that voters always vote for a “minority-religion” candidate when up against a “majority-religion” candidate!]
POINT 2 – ELIGIBILITY: Newsflash!! Every person on the ballot (well, we’re still not sure about Obama), & even most write-in candidates, have proper "qualifications" to not be excluded from office consideration (based upon religious grounds). Of course, millions of us have the "qualifications" to be considered a potential POTUS & shouldn't be excluded outright from a ballot because of the religion we hold! Nobody has a "Religious Ineligibility" tattoo on their forehead!
POINT 3- BOTTOM LINE: People confuse "qualifications" (language within the Constitution) with "qualities" (language that’s NOT in the Constitution). I focus on what voters base their votes on in the "real world": Qualities
Otherwise, Article VI says absolutely nothing...nada...zero...about how voters must weigh--or not weigh--the "qualities" of a candidate...So, nowhere does Article VI say that voters MUST 100% disregard character, beliefs, other-dimensionly commitments, and spiritual discernment in weighing candidates!
"Qualifications" have to do with what gets a man on a ballot. "Qualities" has to do with who gets elected.
Too bad you are sooo disappointed. I didn’t flunk Constitutional History, professor, nor did I misapply it. I’m disappointed that you couldn’t answer my questions. But don’t feel bad...others have shied away from the hard ball.
What do you feel a Mormon, any Mormon, would do if elected president?
Asked and answered, restated and answered, restated again and answered, over and over and over...........answered answered answered........place marker
You were right that you talked about “the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob”. I’m at work so I have to do this on the fly.
Boy, you sure went off the deep end. I queried about American Indians, and you listed crazy things. BTW, don’t think there are any folks here in the US that practice as Cargo Cult.
Please do not lump traditional American Indians of any tribe with Voodoo, Cargo Cult, Islam, or any cults. By-the way, would you consider Catholics to be idolaters?
Why and what do you fear of a Mormon president? If the vote were held today, who would you vote for. Just for the record, here’s a bit of shocking news, I’m not a Romney supporter. But I do support truth, and hate hit pieces.
Yes, I do believe in God. I love my country. Have served in the US Army. I am Conservative.
If you wish to engage in a civilized conversation, I will, but if you are only here to snark, then sod off.
You: dodged, snarked, dodged, snarked, disrespected,...
It’s clear that the snarkiness, otherwise known as arrogance, is always a cover. You should try to have an honest, mature conversation, which starts from not knowing everything, and trying to find out what the other person believes and why. Doesn’t mean you have to agree.
Good luck!
Then tell us what it is you believe about Romney and his mormonISM?
Why don’t MORMONs know MORMON teachings?
There are MORMONs here that seem to have NO idea what is taught in their church!
Sigh...
Do you disagree that leaders of the MORMON church have taught that Jesus was married at Cana?
If you do; then read no further.
You're here, so I take it you have agreed that yes, past leaders DID teach this.
Fast forward to 2011: Do Leaders of the church STILL teach this today?
If your answer is Yes; then read no further. If NO; then my question is WHY NOT?
I take it you do NOT vote in a heavily Democratic precinct.
Not missing anything, as evidence posted upthread Jesus’ marraige at Cana was taught and most LDS I know still believe it, I also know many who have a ‘testimony’ of it. I heard it all the time when I was LDS, so I’m not buying your story that it is only ‘opinion’ and not taught.
Also, you are incorrect on the central message of Mormonism, it doesn’t focus on Christ at all, it focuses on Joseph Smith, the Apostasy, the ‘restoration’ and the BoM and Priesthood. Christ is a footnote in most services. BTW, the whole ‘son of God’ thing? Try being honest. Jesus is the ‘son of God’ IN A LITERAL PHYSICAL SENSE (GOD HAD SEX WITH MARY and I can cite that), and that he isn’t God he is only ONE of an infinite number of Gods. He isn’t even the only Savior, each planet gets their own. God the Father had a different ‘savior’ when He was once a man.
Your faith is focused on a FALSE CHRIST, not the Christ of the Bible, not even close.
So you are denying that the LDS church teaches that Jesus was the firstborn of the Father and Lucifer the second? Don’t forget Lucifer was in line to be the “Savior” as well until he rebelled. They both offered themselves as Savior and God heard both sides.
Mormon Jesus and Lucifer are Spirit brothers, there is no denying that is a teaching of the LDS church. I can source it.
I’m really beginning to think you don’t pay attention at church.
The Founding Fathers said we should never have a faith test for a presidential candidate. If you are in disagreement, then who else should be on that list? Catholics, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, traditional American Indians, etc?
- - - —
Actually the Founding Fathers believed there should not be a GOVERNMENT test of religion, many did believe in a personal test.
And it always comes back to the accusation that if we oppose Romney on Mormonism we would oppose other Christian denominations.
In short, Catholics, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, are all Christians, Mormons are not. I will not vote for a non-Christian EVER. That does include Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Scientists and Universalists.
There is a lot of good accurate info online about Mormons, again check those sites I listed above. Just because something is online doesn’t make it suspect and jsut because it is hard printed doesn’t make it true. Check out the sites I listed, they are all well sourced and those here like ELSIE, use LDS SOURCES that are found online, or are those suspect too?
This country cannot be turned around by NON-Christians and if you don’t think Mormonism through Romney isn’t running for POTUS you don’t know Mormonism at all.
HAHAHA! I live in Los Angeles. Nuff Democrat for you? You should be with me when I go to the poll. Loads of laughs.
And that lurkers in these don't either!
And that lurkers in these threads don't either!
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