Posted on 04/28/2011 5:55:29 AM PDT by ZGuy
Being gay is a gift from God, asserts one church in Ohio.
That’s the message that Central United Methodist Church is spreading throughout their community via a digital billboard, launched on Monday.
This “simple statement,” the church announced, is “intended to be a gift to those who have experienced hurt and discrimination because of their real or perceived sexual orientation.”
“The Church seeks nothing less than the healing of the world, and Central UMC wants to offer words and acts of healing to those hurt and marginalized,” the website states.
Jeff Buchanan, the director of Exodus Church Equipping & Student Ministries, agrees that the Church must display love and compassion for those in the LGBT community. But he opposes the message that CUMC is sending through their “Being Gay is a Gift from God” campaign.
“Why would God bestow this ‘gift’ only to condemn it throughout the Bible? This would seemingly contradict His character as a God who is loving and just.”
The Toledo church’s controversial billboard ad is directly connected to a long month-long sermon series by its new pastor, Bill Barnard. The church is hoping that the ad will move the public towards tolerance, reported ABC 13, and not perpetuate anti-gay attitudes and behaviors, which were harming the LGBT community.
The purposes of their recently launched campaign are threefold: to offer welcome to all persons who are gay; to challenge the larger Church to fully accept persons who are gay into the life of the Church; and to call on all people to bring all the gifts of who they are to God.
“By welcoming and living in community with faithful Christians who happen to be gay, we have come to understand that being gay is part of who God made them to be,” CUMC proclaims on their site. “And by gay Christians bringing all that they are to God, the body of Christ has been strengthened.”
“In fact, we would experience the body of Christ as incomplete without LGBT persons.”
Barnard told ABC, “We really believe that being gay is a gift from God, and it’s not anything that anyone has to apologize for or be ashamed about. So that’s how [the campaign] came to be.”
Believing sexuality to be a “good gift from God” – or as they declared yet another way in God’s infinite diversity – CUMC defines sin as denying who God created them to be.
“The overwhelming scientific evidence is that people are born with their sexual orientation, that it is not a choice,” the church contends. “Fully accepting one’s sexual orientation and identity is key to leading a normal and healthy life.
“Forcing people to act against their God-given sexual orientation will lead to disordered lives. Allowing people to act in accordance with their God-given sexual orientation leads to reconciliation.”
While deeming the marginalization of LGBT persons as “unjustified” – mentioning that Jesus did not speak directly regarding homosexuality – the Toledo church recognizes that the Church today continues to be divided over interpretation of Scripture related to homosexuality.
Just two months ago, 33 retired United Methodist bishops urged the denomination to remove its ban on homosexual clergy, prolonging the undying debate within the church body.
CUMC hopes to unify believers by focusing more on “things that [they] agree on, such as kindness, justice, and humility,” instead of contributing to hate and discrimination, which they believe leads not to reconciliation, but to self-destructive practices within the LGBT community.
“Holding people responsible for matters in which they have no control is irrational and immoral,” the church declares. “We believe that both those within and without the Church are hungry for dialogue about homosexuality that reflects compassion and humility rather than intolerance and strife.”
Buchanan contends that CUMC’s message “tells people that the only option they have is a gay identity.”
But “people need to understand that thousands of men and women have found there is another way and have found freedom from homosexuality through the power of Christ,” he says.
Even if there was conclusive evidence supporting the theory that people were “born this way,” Buchanan stresses that Christians were called to be “born again.”
“While we may not choose our desires, we do have the ability and responsibility to choose whether or not we act on those desires. Our goal should be living a life that is congruent with Scripture,” he says.
“Genesis describes the fall of man and the permanent effects that sin has on us spiritually, mentally, and physically. Just because something may be inherent does not mean it was intended.”
Despite the outcry of many from the Christian community against CUMC’s campaign, Barnard continues to proclaim that homosexuality is a “gift” and has people come and remain just “as they are.”
Working to accept persons who are gay into the full life of the Church, CUMC is a founding member of the Reconciling Ministries Network, which is the United Methodist movement for gay equality in the denomination.
Two of the volunteer staff members at their church, including the music director and lead team chair, live with their partners and have served the church for over seven years.
Grieved over the misinterpretation of Scripture and false teaching that is being promoted by CUMC and many other churches like them, Buchanan encourages churches to deliver the message of Christ with love and grace, but also with accuracy and uncompromised truth.
“We must always remember that authentic love is built upon a foundation of grace and truth.”
The "original" Greek is not known to exist. In any event the oldest manuscripts in existence are no less than 300-400 years after the fact copies.
I am not conversant in either Latin nor Greek and am not qualified to comment on any but plain English text. However, I find Jesus to be subordinate to His Father throughout Scripture.
I find a lot of Universal Salvation types avoid church for the latter reason.
Exactly correct. The bible clearly lays out that we are not to forsake the gathering of ourselves together in fellowship
I understand the concept, and that purgatory is not something that is no much taught in Scripture as it is formulated out of a presumed necessity, that being that believers must attain to a greater holiness to enter heaven, than what they had on earth as they overall followed Christ, as is characteristic of true believers, (Jn. 10:27) but therein is the fundamental error.
The Bible teaches that God justifies the UnGodly by faith being counted for righteousness. (Rm. 4:5) While this must be faith of the kind that effects obedience toward its object, including repentance when convicted of not doing so, and Rome does allow for baptism by desire, yet it is on the basis of this imputed justification that one is "accepted in the Beloved," (Eph. 2:1) and has his life in heaven, from hence also they “look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. . (Phil. 3:20,21)
While no man shall see God without holiness, and justifying faith must have that as a fruit, and believers are judged upon their works as they evidence faith and justify one as a being a true believer (faith without such works being dead), yet it is not on the basis of one's own holiness that one either gain acceptance with God, and are already seated together in heavenly places, (Eph. 2:6) being risen with Christ, (Col. 3:1) or enters into glory, but on Christ's expense and righteousness, procured through faith, not in one's merit, but the mercy and faithfulness of God in Christ who thereby justifies sinners by faith.
If one thus dies having that faith, then he/she will enter the realization of their faith, i.e, their faith will be made sight, and thus every mention of the elect after death shows them to be with the Lord, with no distinction being made. The Corinthians were commanded to examine themselves, whether they be “in the faith,” (2Cor. 13:5) but those who were believers would all have been raptured if that occurred at that time, and hence would “forever be with the Lord.” (1Thes. 4:17) Whatever suffering takes place at the judgment seat of Christ, and i believe there will be tears, is not that of purifying one to make them acceptable to heaven. We either die in faith, which will result in being made like Christ when He appears, (1Jn. 3:2) or we do not, and God will despise our image. (Mt. 7:23; cf. Ps. 73:20)
If one achieved eternal life on the basis of his own holiness then the Christian faith would merely be as under the Law, but with a perfect atonement. Under the law, one was accepted with God based upon his performance, with perfection being required, (Gal. 3:10) and thus it was they who would need Purgatory, if there was to be any hope for such to enter glory, but no mention is made of such. Instead, it is taught that the intent of the law was to show man the impossibility of achieving acceptance with God and heaven based upon his moral merit, and thus they needed to look to God for mercy, that ultimately being Christ, by which sinners are declared righteous by faith in the mercy of God in Christ, who became sin for us, (2Cor. 5:21) with a kind of faith that will work obedience being counted for righteousness. (Rm. 2-8)
While Rome sees imputed righteousness as referring to an inner holiness, an infusion, effected by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, yet the fact is that sinners are made accepted in Christ by faith, and thus would be with the Lord if they died that day. Or whenever, if they have the kind of faith that seeks to be practically what they are positionally.
As for your proof texts that souls must undergo purification after death to achieve the holiness necessary to enter heaven. Your 1st text states: “If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire,” ( 1Cor. 3:15:), but contextually it has nothing to do with expiation being made for sin and or being purified, but the fire is about loss of rewards for building the church with bad material, not stones like Peter. The fire burns up the fake stones, and the builder loses rewards. Thus Paul says to the Thessalonians, "For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? " (1 Thessalonians 2:19) And to the Corinthians, “we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.” 2Cor. 1:14) And to the Philippians, that being “my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.” (Phil. 4:1)
As for 1Pt. 1:7: “That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ,” this once again refers to quality of faith, and this refinement of faith to this life, and — as seen in the light of other texts such as 1Cor. 4:5 — to the degree of praise, honour and glory, and not to a postmortem expiation of sin and purification so they can see the Lord.
I could make a better case for purgatory if i wanted to, and resorting to trying to extrapolate Roman Catholic purgatory out of your verses is an argument against it.
Remember the " good thief"? ... no baptism/no good works/ no purgatory for his crimes... just a meeting with Christ in Paradise
If the suffering and death of Christ on the cross is insufficient.. then one has no hope
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
That is a position that puts you outside of the beliefs of Christianity and reduces Christ to something other than God. This is such a fundamental dogmatic difference that little I doubt that any common ground can be established for further discussions.
That subordinating Jesus is a very Mormonesque thingy. Of course John chapter one tells us a different story than the smithian christian-wannabes believe.
I think there is confusion in Jesus being obedient to the Father as the Savior and being subordinate Reggie.. you might want to rethink this .
I am not expecting you to try to reconcile the teachings of the Church with your own little reality and, frankly, I don't even care to compare and contrast our beliefs. My participation on these threads is only to ensure that the teachings of the Church are not misrepresented, distorted or lied about (which keeps me pretty busy).
So according to you ALL PRIESTS are charlatans, conjurers and child rapists? Do you no longer believe in the commandments of God and have you lost fear of hell?
Whether intended or not it is hyperbole. Nobody takes any of her posts seriously anymore.
Someone on this thread is a job of work. And I ain’t just whistling Dixie.
The RC replies to that range from postulating that paradise was not heaven, and did not exclude purgatory, to Jesus granting “a plenary indulgence,” or that the the suffering of the thief on the cross sufficed to purge him from his sins, or purify his soul.
Engwer notes that
Though various forms of justification through works were popular among the church fathers, we often see them describing the thief on the cross as an example for all believers. Irenaeus (Against Heresies, 5:5:1, 5:31:2) refers to all believers immediately going to the same Paradise that Jesus and the thief went to, not Purgatory. Tertullian speaks of the thief as if he’s normative (On Modesty, 22). Arthur Just cites examples of Origen, Leo the Great, and other fathers referring to how the thief was given Paradise as a result of his faith, how the thief represents the salvation of all people, etc. (Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament III: Luke [Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 2003], pp. 363-367). David King has drawn my attention to the following passage in John Chrysostom:
“Let us see, however, whether the brigand [dying thief] gave evidence of effort and upright deeds and a good yield. Far from his being able to claim even this, he made his way into paradise before the apostles with a mere word, on the basis of faith alone, the intention being for you to learn that it was not so much a case of his sound values prevailing as the Lord’s lovingkindness being completely responsible.” (Robert Charles Hill, trans., St John Chrysostom: Eight Sermons on the Book of Genesis [Boston: Holy Cross Orthodox Press, 2004], Homily 7, p. 123)
Commentators on Luke’s gospel rightly note that the thief’s immediate justification, upon placing his hope in Jesus, isn’t something unique to the thief, but is a theme we see over and over again in the writings of Luke (Luke 5:20, 7:50, 17:19, 18:10-14, 19:9, Acts 10:44-48, 15:7-11, 19:2). People are justified as soon as they believe, before or without baptism or any other work. The thief is an example of the rule, though a dramatic one, not an exception. - http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2006/04/every-christian-in-thief-on-cross.html
As regards the he penitent criminal, and apart from the idea i have addressed before, re postmortem expiation and purification, i see paradise as being Abraham’s bosom, (Lk. 16:19ff;) who could not enter glory because it is “not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.” (Heb. 10:4)
But Jesus having opened the way into the holiest by His own blood, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh, (Heb. 10:19,20) and thus the veil being rent upon His Death, (Mt. 27:51) the Lord “descended first into the lower parts of the earth,” and “led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men,” (Eph. 4:9,10; cf. Jn. 7:39) he set those free in Paradise, which is now the third heaven, (2Cor. 12:2) which is why “the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.” (Matthew 27:52-53)
The penitent criminal thus went to Paradise that day (versus soul-sleep) with the Lord, and then to glory.
Your quoted objection was not to any misrepresentation, and asked how Protestantism reconciled the dilemma which you offered texts to justify. My response was both an explanation in response to your query and critique of your premise.
Well, since Catholics aren't interested in *Innocent until proved guilty* for anyone other than their priests, why don't we put forth the claim that the pope is a sodomite and demand that the Catholics prove the claim wrong.
After all, considering Catholic church history and what is known about the behavior of priests and the cover ups by the hierarchy, it certainly is a plausible claim. The pope had to have started as a priest. That would certainly present as much evidence against him as those making the claim about Calvin.
LUKE 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man.
S'plain this.
Jesus was at the same time fully God and Fully man. These two natures are not "mixed together," (Eutychianism) and are they combined into some kind of God-man nature (Monophysitism). They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.
God’s favor is shown by grace, and though Christ had the benefit of infinite grace from the beginning of the Incarnation, he was still fully human, with all of the human limitations. For Him to suffer He had to have the ability to feel fear and pain. As man he would need to acquired knowledge by experience, as all humans must.
C.S. Lewis argued that one of the ways that Jesus "emptied Himself" was of omniscience, and that His human nature couldn't be both fully human and omniscient since the brain has a physical limit to its capacity.
I have thought long and hard about it for many years. I believe in Jesus as my Lord and my Savior because God created him for this purpose.
Colossians 1:
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18* He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.
Further; I believe Jesus when He says "John 6:46 Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father.
and..........
John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, `Show us the Father'?
Again, do you know the difference between historical fact and theological truth? If you cannot defend Calvin's alleged "peculiarities" with anything other than lashing out at the Catholic Church you are admitting that there is no exculpatory evidence.
Try addressing each of the charges and footnotes and if you cannot disprove them, at least dissemble them or impeach the sources used by Raves. I am willing to be dissuaded.
One person says they saw something but millions say they saw nothing so the weight of evidence is that nothing occurred.
But a fire years ago burned up the records (sigh).
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