Posted on 03/12/2011 3:40:55 PM PST by mandaladon
Thanks for the comments. I appreciate the food for thought.
And a bit More !
Lost Island of Atlantis Has Been Found?!?
http://channels.isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/default.jsp?story=20110314-1402
The rarity of an event is what makes it last in legend, but I take your point — the longer it took, the more survivors would be around to pass down the legend.
Ditto on the underwater archaeology.
As the Earth has been glaciated much of the past two million years, most of our ancestors probably were born and bred on lands now long submerged (and submerged multiple times). There’s no telling what may someday be found, y’know, assuming the World Caliphate doesn’t come to pass.
I’ve got a few of ‘em, the two I know for sure are the Jess Stearn book you mentioned (read that one the first time when I was in high school; a classmate had told me about Edgar Cayce and his supposed trance reading that told of the Atlantean use of a laser, before anyone had discovered that in the 20th c), and of the Cayce products, “Edgar Cayce on Atlantis” (how could I not have that one, since my nick’ is “SunkenCiv”?!?). Thanks to Jess Stearn, I also tracked down Taylor Caldwell’s “Romance of Atlantis”, which really sucked, and I think I had a Cayce remedies book, or maybe it was a cookbook. Wish the guy had lived in the microwave oven era, I’d be the healthiest person in town.
My pleasure. :’)
Reading Plato’s details about currently impassable mud and the harbor that is encountered before the city, I tend to think the main area of Atlantis may have been in the Black Sea area, a pretty good match for the Dardanelles. If they were a great empire then maybe they had colonies around Spain and the Americas.
Now, of the above nations the Carians are a race who came into the mainland from the islands. In ancient times they were subjects of king Minos, and went by the name of Leleges, dwelling among the isles... They served on board the ships of king Minos whenever he required; and thus, as he was a great conqueror and prospered in his wars, the Carians were in his day the most famous by far of all the nations of the earth. They likewise were the inventors of three things, the use of which was borrowed from them by the Greeks; they were the first to fasten crests on helmets and to put devices on shields, and they also invented handles for shields. In the earlier times shields were without handles, and their wearers managed them by the aid of a leathern thong, by which they were slung round the neck and left shoulder. Long after the time of Minos, the Carians were driven from the islands by the Ionians and Dorians, and so settled upon the mainland. The above is the account which the Cretans give of the Carians: the Carians themselves say very differently... The Caunians, in my judgment, are aboriginals; but by their own account they came from Crete. In their language, either they have approximated to the Carians, or the Carians to them -- on this point I cannot speak with certainty. In their customs, however, they differ greatly from the Carians, and not only so, but from all other men.The Carians are called Kreti in the Bible (not in the KJV) and are grouped with the Pleti (Dr V said these latter were Phoenicians, often they are equated with the Philistines) and found in Samuel and Chronicles at least; Corinth (mainland Greece) means "Place of the Khar" or Carians. V also pointed out MacQueen's statement that Hittite "seems to be Lydian" -- a statement that MacQueen struck in the later edition of this book on the Hittites, blotting out the eminently sensible continued use of "Lydian" in favor of the industry standard "Arzawan". The point is the same. Perhaps the Minoans were ethnically Lydian/Arzawan, but definitely related to people on the Anatolian mainland, and far enough back, to what is now mainland Greece, before the Greeks got there. Some discussion I saved some time ago:
As often happens, I can't help quoting myself, I must have saved this clipping from another post around FR:ANE Digest Number 358Years ago, L. Baumbach established a list of well over 100 non-Greek names appearing on the Linear B tablets of Knossos ("An examination of the personal names in the Knossos tablets ....", *Minoan Society*, Bristol 1983, 3-10). There are good reasons for thinking that these names represent a Minoan population ... and there's no doubt of the readings (although, of course, the Greek scribes might well have deformed the names somehow). If Bjarte Kaldhol were to attempt a Hurrian- and Michael Banjai a Semitic- reading of these names, one or the other theory might pull convincingly ahead. [duplicate omitted]
From: Judith Weingarten
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998ANE Digest Number 359On faireness grounds I must concede hurrian as well as as semitic (and luwian also) are among the two-three most serious candidates for linear A appart of a UAL (unidentified Anatolian language).
From: Banyai Michael Leonberg
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998ANE Digest Number 359I am afraid a search for Hurrian names in the Linear B texts from Knossos will be fruitless. I have not seen more than two or three such names. On the other hand, there are not many (if any?) Linear A personal names to be found in the Knossos tablets either. This might be an argument for those who think Linear A cannot be read with the values of Linear B, but there are, after all, some common place names in the two scripts, like pa-i-to (= Phaistos) and su-ki-ri-ta (Hurrian Shukri- plus -ta ?), and it is not entirely correct that Hurrian personal names are totally absent from Linear B texts. For example, names like Inija and Sima (Pylos) could be Hurrian... At any rate, neither Semitic nor Hurrian names are conspicuous in the Linear B texts, so Judith Weingarten may well be right in supposing an "unknown Anatolian" language group represented in Minoan Crete... But to my great astonishment, I found a newbuilt Ninuwa in Caria, written NinoE in Greek... According to Stephanos of Byzantium, this town was built "hypo tOn PelasgOn LelegOn", which is not surprising at all, since the word Pelas-ge itself could be Hurrian (Pelas plus the adjectival suffix -xe, cp. Ninuwaxe etc.). Pelas-xe would have been pronounced Pelasge, with a more or less voiced velar spirant like the Modern Greek gamma, and the -e at the end is a thematic vowel corresponding to Greek -o-. This interpretation presupposes a place name Pelas, however, and I do not know where to look for it. Perhaps the Pelasgians were not Indo-Europeans, as so many have liked to think in the past?
From: Bjarte Kaldhol
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998ANE Digest Number 359while I generally agree with you about the problems to be met with linear B non-Greek onomastic (Sima could be as well semitic, Inuja too), I am wandering whether the -uwa names might be generically called hurrite. There was, at least according to the older linguistic literature, a so called - -muwa language, actually a form of the Luwian. Arzawa, as country name, is a Luwian speaking country as well as Assuwa and so on. Personal names as Panamuwa are quite typical. The range of this languages reached to the south as far as Koe (Kuwa). Tuwanuwa (Tyana) for exemple was one of the towns belonging to this country... Luwitic inscriptions, even bilingual semitic and luw., abound in that very region. However this is no principial argument against linear A as hurrite, just concerning a detail.
From: Banyai Michael Leonberg
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998
Linear B is a system of writing, and it was exclusively used to record the Greek language (as well as numbers, as in inventories and stuff). The Phaistos writing isn't Linear B... Inscriptions on the Linear A and Linear B tablets were made with handheld stylus on clay, and the tablets may have been reused (this is known to have happened with the older cuneiform tablets, as well as much later palimpsests in medieval Europe).Still haven't found what I was looking for, but here's another file:
Another thing that's kinda odd is, the Hattusas archive in Anatolia contains references to the Mycenaean Greeks (that's now, finally, accepted except by some elderly diehards, and most of them are in England), but AFAIK, not a single example of either Linear A or Linear B has been found there. Similarly, AFAIK, no cuneiform tablets were found at Pylos or on Crete, and part of the Hattusas archive consists of court copies of correspondence sent to various places, including Mycenaean regimes.
from a year 2000 file, emphasis added:German Scientists: Europe's Oldest Script Found in BulgariaAncient tablets found in South Bulgaria... unearthed near the Southern town of Kardzhali, are over 35-centuries old, and bear the ancient script of the Cretan (Minoan) civilization, according to scientists from the University of Heidelberg, who examined the foundings. This is the Cretan writing, also known as Linear A script, which dates back to XV-XIV century B.C.
Wednesday, May 18, 2005
Pompeii, by contrast, was covered by thirty feet of ash.Santorini, GreeceSantorini is complex of overlapping shield volcanoes. Basalt and andesite lava flows that make the shield are exposed in the cliff below the town of Phira. Some of the cliff is thought to be a caldera wall associated with an eruption 21,000 year ago. Druitt and Francaviglia (1992) found evidence of at least 12 large explosive eruptions in the last 200,000 years at Santorini...
Akroteri, a Minoan city on the south part of Thera, is being excavated. About 3-6 feet (1-2 m) of ash fell on the city which had a population of about 30,000. The residents appear to have been successfully evacuated prior to the eruption. No bodies have been found in the ash like those at Vesuvius. Archeologists also reported that movable objects had been taken from the city...
The Kameni Islands formed after the caldera. Eleven eruptions since 197 B.C. have made the two islands. The most recent eruption at Santorini was in 1950 on Nea Kameni, the northern island. The eruption was phreatic and lasted less than a month. It constructed a dome and produced lava flows.
Sacred Precincts:The moat, which is over 15 feet deep in places, was dug out of bedrock. We have found a great deal of local pottery in the moat. Surprisingly, we have also found skeletons of what at first appeared to be horses or donkeys. Later analysis showed that these were the bones of a now-extinct equid not known anywhere else in the world -- one smaller than a horse but taller than a donkey or a pony. Study of the bones revealed that the animals had not been used for hard labor or transportation. Stranger still, they were all beheaded and buried in the western moat -- the bones of their bodies at one end of the moat and their skulls at the other. We have found nearly 30 of these creatures. Were they sacred animals? Did worshipers mount them for ritual processions? Did they have some other cultic function? We are open to suggestions, and we hope that further excavations will help solve this mystery.
A Tartessian Sanctuary in Ancient Spain
by Sebastián Celestino
and Carolina López-Ruiz
previously posted
previously posted
marked..interesting links here..thanks
The interesting thing about Plato is that he quotes an Egyptian priest as saying that the Atlantis sinking occurred 9,000 years earlier. This would put it about 13,500 years ago which coincides pretty well with the ideas regarding a major boloid strike episode in the Northern Hemisphere, especially in North America. SC, time to post Firestone’s book.
I believe it is called the Piri Reis map. I’m sure Google will give the correct form if I did not spell it right.
Romans and BarbariansIn fact the German heartland appears to have lain in the southern Baltic and north coastal areas of today's Germany. However, in the late 2nd century BC the Germans began to move southwards into the Rhineland and Belgium, setting in motion events which would shake Roman confidence and fuel her longstanding fear of the morthern peoples. Two tribes migrated from Jutland, 'driven from their lands by a great flood-tide.' (p 70) [footnote: Strabo, Geography, 7.2.1]
by Derek WilliamsII. As for the Cimbri, some things that are told about them are incorrect and others are extremely improbable. For instance, one could not accept such a reason for their having become a wandering and piratical folk as this--that while they were dwelling on a Peninsula they were driven out of their habitations by a great flood-tide; for in fact they still hold the country which they held in earlier times; and they sent as a present to Augustus the most sacred kettle in their country, with a plea for his friendship and for an amnesty of their earlier offences, and when their petition was granted they set sail for home; and it is ridiculous to suppose that they departed from their homes because they were incensed on account of a phenomenon that is natural and eternal, occurring twice every day. And the assertion that an excessive flood-tide once occurred looks like a fabrication, for when the ocean is affected in this way it is subject to increases and diminutions, but these are regulated and periodical.
Geography, 7.2.1
by Strabo
That’s the one.
Freund's theory is that they are the same place (he also give a third name in the show).
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