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To: HKMk23
Repentance is enabled by REVELATION.

Biblical source?? Why, then, do you impose upon the boy the unreasonable, unbiblical, legalistic standard that his testimony is invalid unless it comes with an exhortation to repent, or a sermonette on the Four Spiritual Laws?

I didn't impose anything on the boy. Don't put words in my keyboard. Where did I mention a sermonette of the Four Spiritual Laws? Do you even know if I know them?

Who made you judge over him?

I am not able to judge anyone, (see Romans 2). Can you show me where in my post I judged the boy? I have no clue about his heart, or the heart of his parents and where they stand with Christ our Lord. I simple quoted what the Truth of God from Christ Jesus. Do you have a problem with what He said? If so, then please give scriptural support (in context) Or, perhaps a better question would be WHY you are trying to proclaim judgment on ME and what I think and believe? There really is not any good and Godly reason to attack me.

Have Jesus repeated excoriations of the myopia of the Pharisees and Saducees so failed to register with you that you so readily imitate them rather than Christ?

Why the personal attack? Because you didn't agree with what I said? Again I am asking you - why are YOU judging ME? *scratches head*

You appeal to the gospel; well and good. And what is the gospel (literally: “good news”) but the joyous declaration to fallen man that relationship — actual, personal knowledge of, encounter by, and experience with the Living God — has been made available through the finished work of Jesus at Calvary?

Do you have biblical foundation for all you have said here? Please provide.

The curtain of the temple was torn in two. Who was behind it? And is He there still? NO! He’s out in plain view, for all with “eyes to see, and ears to hear.”

Really? That is not what Paul says in Romans 11:

7What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day." 9And David says, "Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them; 10let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,and bend their backs forever."

Also Luke said the same thing in Acts 28, and Jesus in Mark and Matthew. Not all will see, nor will all understand, as Isaiah prophecied.

And do you think this biblical phrase refers only to spiritual eyes and ears? It does not, for I tell you in all sobriety that Our LORD, Jesus has appeared in Person to MANY to bring to the uttermost ends of the Earth the knowledge of Him. Heathen men and women have SEEN Him with their own physical eyes, and heard Him with their own physical ears.

So? What does this have to do with anything I was talking about or the scripture that I gave?

Recall that Jesus is “The Last Adam,” and consider that part and parcel of his function under that title is to reconcile us to God with the result that we can NOW have relationship to God in the same fullness that the First Adam enjoyed; and I do mean NOW.

Or this?

Or do you think that Our Father, having given up His only Son to save us, would subsequently withhold Himself from us?

Or this?

That is not the testimony of scripture.

Or this?

Paul, in the book of Romans makes this clear when he writes, “He that spared not His own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall He not with him also freely give us all things?”

Or this?

What — aside from sin — is excluded from “all things”? Surely “all” means ALL, and within the scope of all are sons and daughters who prophesy, young men who — like this boy — see visions, and old men who dream dreams.

Or this?

Why does Paul — not once, but repeatedly — exhort The Church to prophesy saying, “...covet spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy” (I Cor. 14:1), and again “I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied...” (I Cor. 14:5), and yet again, “...covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues,” and also even again, “Quench not The Spirit. Despise not prophesying.” (I Thess. 5:19 & 20)?

Or this?

Why these repeated exhortations unless he expected... imaginations.

Or all of that??? Please give a contexual scriptural answer to these questions if you really want to discuss this.

p.s. You may want to read through 1 John 4 first. And so should anyone who wants to read this book and think it is from God.

97 posted on 03/11/2011 12:45:15 PM PST by lupie
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To: lupie
FIRST, and foremost, allow me to apologize for coming on so strong; it isn't about who you are; it is my reaction to the tinge of error. I will explain that more fully, below.

Repentance is enabled by REVELATION.

Biblical source??

Too many to cite, here; they are found throughout the bible, but I'll cite an example or two. When Nebuchadnezzar saw Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego preserved without even the smell of smoke from the fire of the furnace, that was a revelation of God to him, and he responded in repentance; completely discarding his former ideas about YHVH, believing in Him, and issuing a declaration prohibiting blasphemy against YHVH throughout his kingdom. The revelation prompted repentance. When the fire fell on Elijah's sacrifice at Mt. Carmel, ALL of the people fell down and proclaimed "YHVH is God!" The revelation prompted instantaneous repentance from unbelief.

Furthermore, in your own life; pray tell how did you come to faith in Jesus except that the Truth about him was revealed to you, which revelation spurred repentance in your heart? Indeed, though the phrase is not in scripture verbatim, the concept is plainly conveyed: there is no repentance without revelation, and that given by The Spirit of God.

I didn't impose anything on the boy.

Yes, you did. You asked, rhetorically, "I wonder if sin is even mentioned in the book, or repentance?" Your implicit claim is that the boy needed to include those things in the book, and that if he didn't then the book is deficient, and not worth reading.

Why the personal attack? Because you didn't agree with what I said?

I didn't come out to attack you, personally. I came out against your claim that the boy's testimony couldn't possibly aid anyone in coming to faith in Jesus Christ, because that would violate something Jesus said.

Jesus claim, which you quoted was, "If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead."

You used this declaration as a basis to claim that the boy's story, because it is the testimony of one raised from the dead, cannot move anyone to repent; it cannot convince anyone who would not already be convinced by the testimony of Moses and the Prophets.

I assail that claim as incorrect; as a misunderstanding of Jesus' meaning.

Despite the words of Jesus that you quoted, the whole gospel upon which our hope is founded is, itself, established foursquare upon the testimony that someone rose from the dead.

But, according to how you used Jesus' words, if we were not convinced by Moses and the Prophets, we would not be any more convinced if someone were to rise from the dead.

And yet, here we are; saved from all our sin and clothed in the very power that raised Christ; brought to repentance and faith along with millions of others who were not convinced by Moses and the Prophets, but were convinced by the Truth of the gospel; to wit: that Jesus has, indeed, been raised.

Since we did not believe Moses and the Prophets, how were we convinced by Jesus' having risen from the dead? How did Jesus rising from the dead bring us to repentance if his words that you quoted mean what you say they mean?

Obviously, that is a rhetorical question, for it must be that Jesus words do not mean what you thought they did, else we could not have been convinced to repent and believe by his rising from the dead.

THAT is why I came out after you: because you were not declaring the Truth.

Truly, the call to repentance that leads to faith is an exhortation to be convinced because Jesus rose from the dead, even though we would not believe Moses or the Prophets.

And since that is true, we know that Jesus didn't mean what you think he meant, and that it is therefore invalid to claim that "People will NOT come to true faith from reading the account of the book..." Indeed, some have come to faith by it, and more undoubtedly will.

106 posted on 03/11/2011 2:26:56 PM PST by HKMk23 (It won't be "Justice" until wicked people fry.)
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