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To: lupie
FIRST, and foremost, allow me to apologize for coming on so strong; it isn't about who you are; it is my reaction to the tinge of error. I will explain that more fully, below.

Repentance is enabled by REVELATION.

Biblical source??

Too many to cite, here; they are found throughout the bible, but I'll cite an example or two. When Nebuchadnezzar saw Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego preserved without even the smell of smoke from the fire of the furnace, that was a revelation of God to him, and he responded in repentance; completely discarding his former ideas about YHVH, believing in Him, and issuing a declaration prohibiting blasphemy against YHVH throughout his kingdom. The revelation prompted repentance. When the fire fell on Elijah's sacrifice at Mt. Carmel, ALL of the people fell down and proclaimed "YHVH is God!" The revelation prompted instantaneous repentance from unbelief.

Furthermore, in your own life; pray tell how did you come to faith in Jesus except that the Truth about him was revealed to you, which revelation spurred repentance in your heart? Indeed, though the phrase is not in scripture verbatim, the concept is plainly conveyed: there is no repentance without revelation, and that given by The Spirit of God.

I didn't impose anything on the boy.

Yes, you did. You asked, rhetorically, "I wonder if sin is even mentioned in the book, or repentance?" Your implicit claim is that the boy needed to include those things in the book, and that if he didn't then the book is deficient, and not worth reading.

Why the personal attack? Because you didn't agree with what I said?

I didn't come out to attack you, personally. I came out against your claim that the boy's testimony couldn't possibly aid anyone in coming to faith in Jesus Christ, because that would violate something Jesus said.

Jesus claim, which you quoted was, "If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead."

You used this declaration as a basis to claim that the boy's story, because it is the testimony of one raised from the dead, cannot move anyone to repent; it cannot convince anyone who would not already be convinced by the testimony of Moses and the Prophets.

I assail that claim as incorrect; as a misunderstanding of Jesus' meaning.

Despite the words of Jesus that you quoted, the whole gospel upon which our hope is founded is, itself, established foursquare upon the testimony that someone rose from the dead.

But, according to how you used Jesus' words, if we were not convinced by Moses and the Prophets, we would not be any more convinced if someone were to rise from the dead.

And yet, here we are; saved from all our sin and clothed in the very power that raised Christ; brought to repentance and faith along with millions of others who were not convinced by Moses and the Prophets, but were convinced by the Truth of the gospel; to wit: that Jesus has, indeed, been raised.

Since we did not believe Moses and the Prophets, how were we convinced by Jesus' having risen from the dead? How did Jesus rising from the dead bring us to repentance if his words that you quoted mean what you say they mean?

Obviously, that is a rhetorical question, for it must be that Jesus words do not mean what you thought they did, else we could not have been convinced to repent and believe by his rising from the dead.

THAT is why I came out after you: because you were not declaring the Truth.

Truly, the call to repentance that leads to faith is an exhortation to be convinced because Jesus rose from the dead, even though we would not believe Moses or the Prophets.

And since that is true, we know that Jesus didn't mean what you think he meant, and that it is therefore invalid to claim that "People will NOT come to true faith from reading the account of the book..." Indeed, some have come to faith by it, and more undoubtedly will.

106 posted on 03/11/2011 2:26:56 PM PST by HKMk23 (It won't be "Justice" until wicked people fry.)
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To: HKMk23

Wonderful post. Absolutely correct. I particularly like:


And since that is true, we know that Jesus didn’t mean what you think he meant, and that it is therefore invalid to claim that “People will NOT come to true faith from reading the account of the book...” Indeed, some have come to faith by it, and more undoubtedly will.


The business about Abraham & lazarus and the Rich Man is a straw dog.

1. It was a parable.
2. I assume, nevertheless that it was also true.
3. I assume it was TRUE FOR THAT SITUATION WITH THOSE PEOPLE FOR THAT TIME.
4. I do NOT assume that it was for all people in all situations for all times.
5. Scripture indicates in the NT that such experiences are to be expected in the NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH ERA. It is UNBIBLICAL to NOT expect them.


123 posted on 03/11/2011 8:11:39 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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