So unfav: Palin's poll plunge

Politico ^ | 3/10/11 | ANDY BARR

[presidio9]

Sarah Palin’s unfavorable rating is off the charts.

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The former Alaska governor’s numbers are astonishingly upside-down, according to a new Bloomberg poll showing a 32 percentage point spread between those who have an unfavorable rating of Palin and those who view her favorably.

Of the 60 percent in the poll who have an unfavorable opinion of Palin, more than half of them – 38 percent among the whole survey – said they have a “very” unfavorable view of Palin.

Her “very” unfavorable rating is higher than the total favorability ratings of Newt Gingrich, Donald Trump and Chris Christie.

The new poll is a dip from a December Bloomberg poll showing Palin with a net favorable rating of 33 percent and a net unfavorable rating of 57 percent.

The survey is just one more indicator that if Palin were to run, she'd face a very strong headwind whenever trying to reach out to voters beyond her hardcore supporters.

More people surveyed had an opinion of Palin than any other politician surveyed except for Barack Obama, indicating that her numbers are not likely to swing wildly one way or the other.

The poll of 1,001 adults was conducted March 4-7 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points.

[presidio9]

The way in which you wrote what I referred to and questioned, was not what you now claim it to have been.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Please translate this sentence into English.

I'm not surprised that you are willing to accept Nixon's intelligence. The man was a Republican, right?

Jimmy Carter graduated in the top 10% of his class at Annapolis, was smart enough see nuclear propulsion as the wave of the future, worked for the navy as a powerplant engineer, and had Hymen Rickover's blessing as a future nuculear sub commander before his father died unexpectedly. He then resigned his commission and returned to Georgia an his family farm.

Bill Clinton was Phi Beta Kappa from Georgetown's School of Foreign Service, and earned a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford. Any of his associates that might of suggest that his wife was smarter than he is are doing so for political and feminist reasons. One look at how the two handle themselves in public confirms this. And not to take anything away from HRC. Her intelligence should also be obvious to any impartial observer. For that matter, she's probably brighter than Reagan or Palin, but her people skills let her down.

Here are a couple of ideas you need to get into your head: People are not necessarily stupid just because you disagree with them politically. And there are no idiot presidents. There are probably few Senators, for that matter, but that's for a different discussion. OTOH, I have no doubt that some presidents have sought out less intelligent VP candidates. And the job probably appeals to less intelligent men. Nixon reportedly hated the idea. In any case, acknoledging the fact that any unbiased observer can see: Reagan was no rocket scientist (but he WAS a keen observer, and he stuck to his principles) while Jimmy Carter actually WAS a nuclear engineer, and Bill Clinton WAS a Rhodes scholar, is not to be taken as an insult to Reagan. That same impartial observer is also bound to acknowledge that Reagan led a far more productive and successful presidency. Sarah Palin is no idiot, clearly. But at the moment, she has nothing she can point to that puts her in the same orbit as Carter or Clinton. Don't make the same mistake Palin's (& Reagan's) detractors are making, that of discounting someone's intelligence, just because they believe differently than you. Actually, they are doing that to Bush as well, right.

By the time the GOP primaries reach N.Y. and California, there will be far more in them than Palin and Romney; not to mention the fact that in all probability ( based on the '08 GOP primaries ), Romney may have bowed out already

Please translate this sentence into English while you're at it. I can't respond to you if I have no idea what you're talking about.

And no need to keep bringing you Romney's Olympic post. I will repeat to you that it was never a matter of interest to me. I'm not a Romney fan, and it gets boring making factual observations to people who hate the man primarily because he's standing in the way of Sara Palin. My point remains that Romney has the most impressive private sector resume of any current candidate, including Palin. That was the only point. Everything else is irrelevant.

Finally, and this is just a personal preference, your lame attempts at trash-talking (which have already evolved into personal attacks) are nothing more than a distraction. They are not helping your argument.

[fluffdaddy]

Dan Quayle had his points, but he couldn't overcome the media's caricature of him because it had more than enough truth about it to be devastating. Palin is quite a different case.

As far as I can see there is no basis in fact for the popular caricature of her. The gulf between the myth and the reality is so wide that the she may actually benefit from all the abuse heaped on her head. A presidential campaign is likely to make her most passionate critics look like the buffoons they are and give her an opportunity to sail comfortably over a very low bar.

At any rate we had all better hope Palin can overcome her liabilities because, for better or worse, she's likely to be the best we can find for 2012. I'm open to alternatives, but I don't see any.

[Finny]

The problem with this is that the Republican Party IS NOT going to do it! That much should be obvious to anybody by now.

You sound like a defeatist; you sound demoralized and beaten. And in fact, it seems obvious to me that there are a lot of Republicans -- such as those of us who object so strongly to the likes of Romney, and those of us who no longer give to the RNC but instead donate directly to Republicans who stand for limited government principle -- who are working to get the Repubican party to reclaim the role it once had of being the party that will best represent those of us who agreed with Reagan when he said that "Government is not the solution to our problems; government IS the problem."

So if you think it's absolutely hopeless that Republicans who DO advocate the principles of limited government can gain the support of voters, what do you have that is constructive to add to the conversation?

If you think it needs to go third-party, say so. If you think we should all just surrender and wail and complain and cry and engage in impotent anger -- which is what it sounds like to me -- then I'll just remember to skip your posts; all they serve to do is to spread your own demoralized defeatism while energizing the enemy.

[presidio9]

I think closer to the the truth with Palin is that she's something more than the Tina Fay impersonation, and something less than the inflated image that too many people on this website have created. Is what she has enough to make her a successful president? I don't doubt that.

But getting back to the original point, the media perception of Quayle was that he was borderline retarded. I have met the man a couple of times, and he is a highly intelligent, charismatic person. Palin may get more coverage, but I would dispute the idea that she has gotten the hammer as hard as he got it.

[wideminded]

Right. Nobody can flip flop like the ol’ Mittster.

“I was an independent during the time of Reagan-Bush. I’m not trying to return to Reagan-Bush.” - Mitt Romney, 1994

“Ronald Reagan is ... my hero. ... I believe that our party’s ascendancy began with Ronald Reagan’s brand of visionary and courageous leadership.” - Mitt Romney, 2007

C-SPAN recently played a clip of Reagan endorsing Hubert Humphrey.

[plain talk]

I think it’s really just a matter of people not liking her personality mostly.

I don't think it's her personality. Politics aside - who could not like her as a person? It's an image problem as has been defined by the MSM. Easily overcome if she can go around the MSM and reach sufficient numbers of the public. But she will have to do that while simultaneously enduring MSM attacks to define her as some dingbat.

[nopardons]

Of course you are finding it difficult to understand my well constructed English. Sadly, anyone who can write such disjointed, ungrammatical, butcher English prose as :"Any of his associates that(SIC)might of(SIC)suggest (SIC) that his wife was smarter than he is(SIC) are doing so for political and feminist reasons." would be befuddled by my posts.

For the record, it was at the very start of Bill Clinton's presidency, when the N.Y. Times, other papers, as well as weekly news magazines were doing fluff pieces about the Clintons, that their friends and acquaintances were all quoted as saying that she was the one with the real brains in that family. Ergo, it was hardly for "political reasons", that those quotes were given. These quotes also appeared in most books about the Clintons, BTW. There were also claims that while at Yale, Bill copied Hillary's work, to hand in and/or that she would do some of his course work for him.

Not knowing the Clintons nor their friends ( and no, NOT "associates", but their old, long term friends, are the ones who were quoted and yes, in context )personally, I can only supply you with what those who knew them both said. I do have a friend, who does know some of the people in that group and they told her the same thing............back in 1991 and '92.

I knew President Nixon. My opinion of him and his intelligence has more to do with my personal contact with him, my observation of his actions in and out of political office, and his books, rather than the fact that he was a Republican.

Hillary is "more" intelligent than RONALD REAGAN was ? REALLY? And what facts would back up that absurd assertion ? Please do not be shy; put those facts up here, right now!

Ditto for the claim that she is also "smarter" than Palin!

Yes,Bill Clinton was indeed a Rhodes Scholar; however he didn't get there on his own merit and neither did he attend most of the lectures, nor even graduate from the program.

Oh good grief............ your screed about Jimmy Carter is just another hysteric, hyperbolic pool of garbage.

Almost "ALL" Senators are "intelligent" and ALL presidents have been as well? ROTFLMSOPIMP !

I won't waste bandwidth refuting those statements, but those statements prove just how little you know about anything; especially those people.

I now suspect that you have no idea what Romney did/claimed he did vis-a-vis the Olympics, which is why you are refusing to reply to my posts about that. You also have ignored what I posted about Romney and Bain. Whenever I post facts or ask you to factually engage in a discourse about those things, you have completely ignored to do so.

I haven't thought that Mitt Romney was much for decades. This is because I actually DO know what he has said and/or done. I also remember his father's stabs at running for president and Mitt is and shall continue to follow in his father's failed endeavors. Your assumption that I "hate" Romney because he "is standing in the way of Sarah Palin" is beyond absurd; not to mention specious !

Your abject lack of factual knowledge,combined with your hyper emotionalism, colors your posts to such a degree, that these things diminish any possible sense contained therein.

[stuartcr]

Politics aside - probably the people that are different from you.

[fluffdaddy]

There is undoubtedly some Palin hero worship that isn't well-grounded in reality, particularly around here. But back in the real world, I still think Palin is better equipped to deal with the standard conservative stereotype than Dan Quayle ever was.

Quayle wasn't retarded, but neither was he ever aggressive about defining himself. A hostile media filled the void. If only Quayle had responded to Lloyd Bentsen’s famous taunt that he “was no Jack Kennedy” by flashing a smile and saying: “Of course not, I'm faithful to my wife” — he would by now be America's best and most beloved former President. Alas, he just looked flustered and muttered something about how he was the victim of a low blow. The enemedia went on to hammer him into their “moron conservative” template

This worked with Quayle in large part because he is a gracious, decent person. Pig wrestling was beneath him and so the swine went unwrestled and his reputation never recovered.

Palin, by contrast, is a scrapper. She also has tools Quayle didn't have in the days before alternative media flowered,and she is remarkably astute about using them. I don't think she can be Quayled, certainly her poll numbers at this point do nothing to persuade me otherwise.

Then again, maybe I'm just indulging in wishful thinking. Palin may get into the race and stumble coming out of the gate. She may give it a miss. Unlike some others I don't have much invested in the prospect of her candidacy. But I will be surprised if she doesn't run and even more surprised if she does run and doesn't do it well. I can't think of anyone else about whom I could say as much.

[presidio9]

I knew President Nixon.

OK, I'll bite: What was the nature of your relationship with president Nixon? Here's mine: When I was an infant, he held me in my arms and kissed me on the campaign trail. I can document that fact with a photograph if necessary. I don't think that puts me in a position to judge his intelligence. I'm going by what I've read from impartial commentator that did know the man. The fact remains that you so far seem unable to appreciate intelligence in anybody you disagree with politically. And, for that matter, why is you relationship as special adviser to President Nixon even relevant, if we both seem to agree that he was pretty sharp?

Tell me if you think any of these people are intelligent: Ruth Ginsberg

Bob Beckel

Michael Moore

Juan Williams

Hugo Chavez

Martin Sheen

Barney Frank

Charlie Rangel

Kirsten Powers

Andersen Cooper

This is a trick question, of course. All of these people are highly intelligent, though I suspect your first inclination was to pick Williams, because he's the most moderate. I would tend to place him last on that list. Second to last, anyway.

You keep talking about facts, and then giving personal opinion. Seems to be that you don't really understand the concept. It is a FACT that Carter graduated in the top 10% of his class at Navy. It is also a fact that Bill Clinton was awarded the Rhodes Scholarship and was Phi Beta Kappa at Georgetown. It is also a fact that Palin has nothing comparable on her academic record. Quite the contrary actually, but I am not here to tear her down, because I actually think that she is quite intelligent. As I stand by the idea idiots rarely get themselves into the position of running for president, so far, never win. And idiots quite rarely get themselves into the position of running for Senator, regardless of what their political detractors want to believe. One doesn't wake up one morning and say "I guess I'll run for senator." A realistic aspiration like that requires money and the backing of hundreds of people on day one. Some people make asses of themselves on the job, but not becuase they suffered from a lack of intelligence to begin with. Like Mit Romney, Al Gore had the benefit of a lucky upbringing. He has allowed political aspirations to cloud his thinking on critical topics. But believe this: He is no dummy. He just does stupid things and has stupid opinions because they help his political cause. And, yes, Sara Palin is smarter than Al Gore.

This is such an abused term on FR, but your obsession with Romney's Olympic career is the classic straw man argument that I am forced to address it for a third time: Nobody's talking about it but you. If I'm not mentioning it, it doesn't help your argument with me to debate what other people might be saying. So enough already. Romney has more business experience than any other candidate. Deal with it. And if you won't deal with it, understand the fact that his fellow candidates and Republican voters are going to concede the point to him anyway. Your personal feelings about Romney are irrelevant. And I'm not talking about the Olympics because I truly don't care, sort of like the fact that John Bolton was Ambassador to the UN is of no interest to me. Neither position comes close to being a qualification for the title of biggest badass on the planet. Is somebody put a gun to my head right now and said "Pick one damn it!" I might go with Gingrich, even realizing that he's soft on immigration and enviornmentalism, and Palin is a better person than him. But a lot can happen in a year and a half. That's why I'm taking six or eight good hard looks at EVERYBODY. Including Palin. Well, maybe not Trump.

And, yes, everybody who knows Bill "personally," either hates his guts, is a feminist or both. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that they are all on record saying "she's smarter than him." She wasn't a Rhodes Scholar. He got to the White House from political obscurity. She was awarded a golden ticket by her husband and GWB, and she fumbled.

I have been around FR long enough to stand by my observation that people like you, who have their candidate picked four and a half years ahead of time have nothing left to do but shred every single challenger to pieces the minute their name gets mentioned. The sad thing about this is that your gold standards, Reagan & Palin, would be the ones who would disapprove of this attitude the most. Reagan did not progress from liberalism to libertarianism to conservatism by shutting out all debate, but by learning from that debate and incorporating the things he agreed with into his own thinking.

And, yes, you are an angry person. You pretty much ended the personal attacks when I called you on them, but you continue the trash talking because you take this subject personally. That's actually not a problem for me, because it helps me draw attention to your character defect. I know you don't understand this, but I'm actually trying to help you here. Why not step back from Palin completely for six months, or at least until she officially announces her candidacy. If nothing less, you'll be a happier, less argumentative person. You're family will begin to enjoy your company again. And perhaps you'll learn something about objective reasoning.

[nopardons]

Oh my........your projection and bizarre assumptions are really all that you have; pity that.

Actually, no, Williams wasn't my first nor even second choice, in that silly list of yours. Kirsten Powers was, followed by Ginsberg.

That you believe that Charlie Sheen, of all people, is more intelligent than Juan Williams, is quite telling.

You keep on assuming all kinds of rather strange and peculiar things about the Clintons, their friends, etc. and me; all of them easily proven to be false. The people I was quoting were a mixed bag, many of them men ( hardly "feminists" ), who did not the "hate" him at all.

LOL............unlike you, I have posted facts and unemotionally. You are the one who is angry as all get out, flailing around, and misrepresenting how Clinton became a Rhodes Scholar.

Al Gore got middling to lousy grades in prep school, college, and flunked out of grad school ( Divinity program ), before he mother twisted arms to get him into the law school he finally managed, somehow, to graduate from.

As for the Kennedys, Bobby was far more intelligent than either JFK and Teddy. Actually, Teddy was quite lazy and stupid. His son didn't fall far from that tree.

Are you basing your opinion of who is and who isn't intelligent/smart on grades? It would appear so and that isn't always a good way to judge that. Neither is where one has gone to school and/or college.

My family and friends love me, don't see me as "angry" at all, and daily seek out my company.

The only person making personal attacks, is you. Perhaps I should reply in kind; that must be the only kind of response you will understand.

As to my knowing President Nixon, it was as an adult, unlike you, for more than just a kiss on a political meet & greet line, and that's all I'm going to tell you.

As far as Romney is concerned, okay, forget about the Olympic stuff and try to discuss his time with Bain.....without looking it up. Oh, that's right, you can't, you have no idea what I'm talking about, and what's more, you don't care. Perhaps you care about his use of tax havens? Maybe you don't.

Newtie? You'd pick Newtie? He belongs in some ivory tower, but then, he'd be filling empty heads with a lot of garbage; though yes, he would also get some much needed factual American history in there as well. LOL......I bet you believe that he is a genius.

I've been on FR a long time and frankly, wonder how you have been here as long as you have, without learning more facts about some of the people you have decided to discuss. Perhaps, you should read more and post less. That's just my trying to help you, not a slam.

[Irish Eyes]

If it needs to be said, I'll say it: Sara Palin is not Ronald Reagan. Until there is a hostage crisis for Obama to deal with, Palin still needs something more than the deficit to work with.

Where have you been ? ...whole countries are being held hostage.

[Irish Eyes]

Doctor says all systems running normal, but proceed with caution. Thanks!

great news

[Fledermaus]

Sure, when the poll probably consists of 90% liberal morons and 10% liberal idiots.

[presidio9]

That you believe that Charlie Sheen, of all people, is more intelligent than Juan Williams, is quite telling.

Read it again professor.

I'm waiting for further details on your cited relationship with President Nixon. It's a fools errand to debate with people who need to make things up to prove a point.

[nopardons]

If I explain just how I knew President Nixon, you'll come back with : "THAT'S A LIE"/"YOU JUST MADE THAT UP"/or something worse/even more foolish. Admit it.......you know that that's the truth. Nothing I say will convince you otherwise; not even if I showed you the Christmas cards I got from him, with the handwritten notes on them, my invites to both of his Inaugurals ( yes, I went to them ), or anything else that would substantiate what I state as fact. You've long ago decided that what I say isn't true, that you know more about me than you do, and that only you knows what what.

So here are a few salient queries that you need to answer, right now, and then, perhaps, I'll tell you just how and when I knew President Nixon.

1) On what criteria do you base someones intelligence? Please explain in detail.

2) Bill Gates quit college, never went to grad school ( of course ), and though he did well on his SATs, I know a lot of people who scored higher. The government ( Bill Clinton run and his bully-boys did the deed ) went after Gates and he caved. Now he's Dem all the way. Does that make him and "idiot savant" ?

3)Fully explain why you believe that Hillary Clinton is "smarter" than Ronald Reagan.

4)In extensive detail, provide me with factual, non-opinion proof that Romney is intelligent, has command of executive/business acumen, and that that alone makes him worthy of being president.

[LibLieSlayer]

Great news!!!! Praise GOD!

LLS

[stratman1969]

Yeah, and in 1979 polls were showing that even Ted Kennedy could beat Ronald Reagan in a two way race in 1980

[itsahoot]

What an absurd thing to say. I’m going to buy an iPad and I have eminent sense, unlike yourself who insults people for no reason.

Geese Ed Lighten up, it was parody, aimed at Pissant.

I have 4 Macs, 4 iPhone 4's and 1 iPad.

[presidio9]

OK, so you made the Nixon thing up. I don't hold that against you. I suspected as much, because it seemed a little ridiculous that a person who had a personal relationship with President Nixon wouldn't choose ANY conceivable screen name other than the one you did (even if it refers to Clinton or whatever). Sorry, not buying it.

Not buying it because I actually DO have personal relationships with several famous conservatives and republicans, but I'm smart enough to know that won't help my argument. You've been here long enough to learn that lesson. Hence, it's all in your head. Good luck with that.

Now, I hate doing this, because I admire Sara Palin, and, yes, I do think she's an intelligent woman, but since you are persisting with this silly argument, please tell me what she has in her background to compare to a top 10% graduation placement from Annapolis, or Phi Beta Kappa from Georgetown. She certainly attended enough colleges. Perhaps you can find something in there to bolster your argument.