Fuel cells: is the future now?

www.fleetequipmentmag.com ^ | 01-19-2011 | By Carol Birkland

[Red Badger]

Some new developments indicate that the once "future" fuel cell technology for commercial vehicles may be "now." Green Car Congress recently reported that, under the terms of an agreement drawn up earlier this year, Vision Motor Corp., designers and manufacturers of hydrogen fuel cell Class 8 heavy-duty commercial trucks, would deliver two of its H2-fueled big rigs and a single terminal tractor to the ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles in early 2011.

According to the announcement, all of the heavy-duty trucks are driven by electric motors, with battery packs that are recharged by the vehicles’ on-board hydrogen fuel cells. The trucks will undergo 18 months of real world testing under conditions that any diesel-fueled short-haul vehicle would typically encounter. Each of the two ports has agreed to dish out $212,500 from a Technology Advancement Program fund to buy the trucks. The H2-fueled vehicles will be operated by Total Transportation Services Inc., a trucking firm that operates at both ports, while the lone yard tractor will be under the control of California Cartage Express.

In addition, India’s leading automaker, Tata Motors, has developed a range of hydrogen fuel cell-powered commercial vehicles like buses and light trucks. The fuel cell powered commercial vehicles are now under trials in the company’s European Technical Centre.

With the trend of eco-friendly vehicles on the way and scope for more subsidies from the governments, the international auto majors are testing their expertise in coming out with vehicles having less pollution. And in this trend of green technology, many other global car companies like Nissan, Honda, BMW, and Daimler Benz have also joined.

The technology has been introduced into test motorcoaches in the U.S. previously. Four next-generation fuel cell-powered hybrid-electric transit buses were introduced last month in Hartford, joining an earlier generation bus that began service in 2007. The new buses will be operated by Connecticut Transit (CTTransit) and are equipped with UTC Power fuel cell systems. UTC Power is a United Technologies Corp. company.

The new buses, part of the Federal Transit Administration’s national Fuel Cell Bus Program, recognized Hartford for adopting fuel cell technology to power transit buses. Only the Greater Oakland/San Francisco, Calif., area will have a larger fuel cell bus fleet in the United States, also equipped with UTC Power fuel cell systems. Fuel cell buses run on hydrogen and produce no harmful tailpipe emissions; they emit only water vapor. Their clean operation can have an immediate positive impact on street-level emissions.

According to CTTransit’s Assistant General Manager-Maintenance Services, Steve Warren, “The fuel cell bus we’ve been operating since 2007 has demonstrated that the technology works and its fuel efficiency is about two times better than a standard diesel powered bus. With the reduced weight of the new model bus, our fuel economy should get even better. And drivers and the riding public tell us they love the quiet, smooth ride and appreciate the environmental benefits.”

[Red Badger]

"According to CTTransit’s Assistant General Manager-Maintenance Services, Steve Warren, “The fuel cell bus we’ve been operating since 2007 has demonstrated that the technology works and its fuel efficiency is about two times better than a standard diesel powered bus............."

[Red Badger]

Rest In Peace, old friend, your work is finished.....

If you want ON or OFF the DIESEL ”KnOcK” LIST just FReepmail me.....

This is a fairly HIGH VOLUME ping list on some days.....

[SC_Pete]

So how much subsidy is required? What about hydrogen stations? Who pays for that? Who pays for the conversion costs? Who pays for the increased cost of production? Who pays for the production of significant amounts of hydrogen? Who pays to store it? Who pays to transport it?

Probably the taxpayers. Again. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

[Bill W was a conservative]

How much energy is expended in obtaining the hydrogen?

[cripplecreek]

Yard tractors are a long way from over the road trucking, let alone over the mountain trucking.

Fuel cell tech sounds like it might be fine for cars and local fleet vehicles.

[Yo-Yo]

The best and cheapest way to get hydrogen is by stripping it out of Natural Gas. Which gives off a lot of CO₂ in the process.

But a fuel cell combined with regenerative braking may be cheaper overall than a natural gas or diesel powered bus.

[Texas Fossil]

“India’s leading automaker, Tata Motors”

(hee hee hee hee?)

—

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2010/03/car_fire_raises_safety_concern.html

“Car fire raises safety concerns for Tata Motors”

Published: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 6:42 PM Updated: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 6:50 PM

Pic: http://media.oregonlive.com/business_impact/photo/car-in-flamesjpg-ed2808c6cd581e58_large.jpg

[Hodar]

I expect to see Apple jump to the forefront on Fuel Cells. The Liquid Metal patent they now own, sounds almost ideal for use in Fuel Cells. The metal has to be very corrosion resistant, capable of handling high temperatures, and very conductive (Liquid Metal is ideal).

I expect Apple to release a Fuel Cell powered product in the next year. Imagine an iPod that can run for a day or two off a tablespoon of water.

[baddog 219]

I was in Japan last year and all the Tokyo city busses and maintence vehicles were hydrogen powered. Honda has an Accord that is hydrogen powered, with a home power station,and 55 mpg, but the U.S. will not let them import it

[SeeSac]

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Just moved from my home in CA. It was on a street served by the transit bus system. Would have been greatful if those busses had been quiet electric!

[norwaypinesavage]

"How much energy is expended in obtaining the hydrogen?"

The answer is FAR more than you get from burning (oxidizing) the hydrogen in the fuel cell! More than half the electricity in the US comes from burning coal. A hydrogen fuel cell vehicle simply is an inefficient coal powered vehicle.

[camle]

two questions:

1) how long before the truck needs to be refeuled?
2) doesn’t it take more energy to put the hydrogen INTO a cell than you get out of it?

[saganite]

Intel has bought a company with a fuel cell product ready to go to market which will use butane to power the fuel cell recharging device. Hopefully, one of those will soon be replacing the rats nest of cables I lug around!

[Hodar]

You are confusing a Hydrogen engine, with a Fuel Cell. They are radically different. Depending upon how the cell is set up - it can run on Diesel or gasoline. It has no moving parts, it's an electro-chemical reaction that produces an electrical current.

Instead of:
gas -> combustion-> mechanical motion -> electrical current

We have:
gas-> electrochemical reaction -> electrical current

No moving parts, no energy lost to friction and wear. Hence, almost 2x as efficient as internal combustion engines.

[mongo141]

“So how much subsidy is required? What about hydrogen stations? Who pays for that? Who pays for the conversion costs? Who pays for the increased cost of production? Who pays for the production of significant amounts of hydrogen? Who pays to store it? Who pays to transport it?

Probably the taxpayers. Again. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.”

Yeah but it gives the enviro Nazi’s a nice warm fuzzy feeling all over so it is worth it at any price.

[Prokopton]

A hydrogen fuel cell vehicle simply is an inefficient coal powered vehicle.

The most sensible solution is to co-generate hydrogen from water with the huge amount of unused electricity generated by nuclear power plants.

[Bill W was a conservative]

Per norwaypinesavage, more efficient if the hydrogen were free.

[CobraJet]

So if the fuel cell is gas> electro-chemical reaction> electrical energy, what type of gas is used to charge into the cell?

[Hodar]

Some of these Fuel Cells get their power derived from taking Hydrogen off common Hydrocarbon-rich fuels. For example, natural gas, kerosine, diesel, sunflower oil - the list is huge.

Granted, the 'easiest' is using Hydrogen gas - but that does not leverage the built-in infrastructure we already have with these other fuels.

[Hodar]

This depends largely on which Fuel Cell design is used. There are some that use water and air, others use natural gas, some use diesel, some have used Sunflower oil. Granted, the Sunflower Oil was a messy, ugly and not practical solution - but it proved a concept that it COULD be done.

The hyperlink above is to Wikipedia - which lists 22 types of Fuel Cells. What may be practical for a RV or truck, may not be practical for your laptop, or your cell phone. Cost, output power, size ane efficiency vary. But generally, they are all much more efficient than what we have now.