Have you ever flown into or out of Ben Gurion on El AL? Do you have any idea how intrusive those interrogations are?
Where are you going, who are you visiting, why are you visiting them, do you like Israel, why are you angry etc, Are you Muslim, are your parents Muslim, etc, etc.
How is an interrogation - with no right to refuse to answer - any less a violation of an aggressive pat-down (that are also done to people using the "Israeli method")?
Does the federal government have the right to ask you who you're visiting and why when you're traveling from NYC to Indianapolis? No need to answer, I already know that you do because you have vigorously endorsed the "Israeli Method".
I think Israeli security is involved in any flight into Israel, regardless of airline. All flights to Tel Aviv have an additional security checkpoint at the gate. I thought these were Israeli security agents or El Al security employees. I flew Lufthansa from Frankfurt to Tel Aviv in January 2006, and I don't recall any additional questions to me, but they may have done so to those who had Arabic surnames. I did get quite a few questions at immigrations coming into Israel. Some poor sap failed the entrance exam and was escorted through a door to another area.
Going out the questioning is much more lengthy, but if you are in Israel on business, you can get a letter from your local sponsor explaining the nature of your trip, which can help expedite things.
That said, the interrogation at Schiphol Airport (again, at the departure gate) in Amsterdam when I transited there in December 2005 was more intense than the entry questioning into Israel. There was a family traveling and they separately questioned the man, the woman, and the 12-14 year old boy. There was a younger boy who was not questioned.
What was interesting about the Amsterdam interrogation was how the security agent looked you right in the eye as he asked the question. He did not ask a question while he was looking at the boarding pass, and then look at you while you answered. This is no doubt to look for micro-expressions.
That is why I was surprised Abdulmutallab intentionally traveled via Amsterdam. Maybe security was more lax in December 2009 compared to December 2005.
In January 2006 I transited Munich. In summer 2007 I traveled from Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris back to the U.S. In both cases there were no interrogations. I think it is/was a Amsterdam thing back then.
"Does the federal government have the right to ask you who you're visiting and why when you're traveling from NYC to Indianapolis?"
The federal government does sometimes do this at inbound immigrations when a citizen reenters the U.S. from a foreign country. They seem to do it when the purpose of the trip was business (I don't recall getting the 3rd degree on vacation travel).
I will bet it is not the actual question which matters here. The purpose is for the questioner to observe any micro-expressions which may identify deceit. My guess is smugglers probably started putting down "business" on their immigration form believing they would get better treatment than those ostensibly traveling on pleasure.
I personally think a better use of TSA manpower would be to double up on the ID checking stations, and ask some questions, instead of having TSA agents wander around yelling at passengers to take their shoes off, and other guidance.
You can get asked that much in a routine traffic stop, and the police are all offended if you don't answer.
What kind of questions do you suppose will be asked of those who decide they don’t want to be groped?
I’d sure as heck rather answer questions about the purpose of my trip than have somebody feeling around on my body - knowing darn good and well that somebody really serious about getting a bomb on board would have it placed inside their body where none of the screening procedures would be effective at all EXCEPT the questions to screen for behaviors.
IOW, I would much rather have an effective, rigorous but non-invasive questioning than be groped only to be blown to bits mid-air anyway because the groping wasn’t effective at keeping me safe.
Outstanding post. First one I’ve seen that speaks up against what some are condoning as the “new” perfect model for us. I do not wish to be interrogated to travel in what used to be a free country.
Just driving from AZ to TX, through a small part of NM, in May, on vacation, we were stopped at endless roadblocks. From the highway to smaller roads, we were interrogated about our vacation plans. Sniffed by dogs. All in the primary BP line.
And we have our F-150 with a camper shell — clearly visible (not tinted windows or anything), empty except for a couple of suitcases and a cooler. We are clean and clean-cut, if I do say so myself.
It disgusted me that we couldn’t even enjoy the sights without harassment. And yes, the Hispanic BP loved interrogating the stupid white people, while the one non-Hispanic BP we encountered let us go after we answered the citizenship question.
My brother brought up the fact that El Al flights are somewhere in the neighborhood of 60K a year. If that's the case, then extensive background checks may simply not be "scalable" in a model where there's up to 5,000 commercial flights in the air at any given moment.
The BIG difference is that the Israelis only interrogate those that meet their profile of a potential problem. They do not do it to everyone and in fact, they publicize the types they will interrogate.
“Does the federal government have the right to ask you who you’re visiting and why when you’re traveling from NYC to Indianapolis? No need to answer, I already know that you do because you have vigorously endorsed the “Israeli Method”.
Amen. After seriously considering profiling, scanning, groping, and now this rampant “Israeli Method” crap, I have come to the conclusion that the only constitutional method of protecting our airlines is allowing passengers to unionize. Then the administration would give all the union bosses free flights, take over or bail out the airlines, and drop fares to next to nothing (for union members, of course).
Seriously, the only way to get things back to reality from this ridiculous ‘it’ll-all-be-safe-if-only-we-give-everyone-anal-probes-and-ask-about-their-sex-lives’ attitude is to post a big “ENTER AT OWN RISK” sign on the door to everyone’s homes so that when they leave in the morning they realize life ain’t fair, easy, or safe. At what point do we realize that after the government makes airports Gestapo zones, it’ll be doing so anywhere there are buses, boats and cars? Not trains, of course, because that nice government fellow would like us to get used to those, so we’re docile on the way to the reeducation camps.
When you count the hours people waste in various lines for permissions from government to live that life in the guise of ‘protection,’ it all adds up to the notion of freedom being shredded already.
“The TSA should be defunded by our new Congress and replaced with the Israeli model for airport security.”
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Have you ever flown into or out of Ben Gurion on El AL? Do you have any idea how intrusive those interrogations are?
Where are you going, who are you visiting, why are you visiting them, do you like Israel, why are you angry etc, Are you Muslim, are your parents Muslim, etc, etc.
How is an interrogation - with no right to refuse to answer - any less a violation of an aggressive pat-down (that are also done to people using the “Israeli method”)?
Does the federal government have the right to ask you who you’re visiting and why when you’re traveling from NYC to Indianapolis? No need to answer, I already know that you do because you have vigorously endorsed the “Israeli Method”.
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Agree that both are intrusive, but I’ll take the questioning any day. If the real goal is to stop terrorists, good examiners can detect shady characters who lie pretty easily, and the more the person is exposed, the deeper the questioning gets - and the claims a traveler makes can ultimately be verified if need be in most cases.
However, with the scan and grope, it is immediate and total exposure based on absolutely nothing. It is a violation of basic human dignity at its fullest, and it will not stop at airports, IMO.
By the time you're answering those 'intrusive' questions, you've already been selected as a person of interest by the ticket, payment, and those flags kicked off from a scan though various listings. In simple terms - profiling.
When did this start?
I flew to Israel back in 1977, and the “interrogation” went something like, “Welcome to the Republic of Israel.”