Posted on 11/13/2010 2:55:59 PM PST by DontTreadOnMe2009
Hannity was surprised to hear a famous ex Air Force General tell him “That Is A Missile, Shot From A Submarine!” I quote retired Air Force Lieutenant General Tom McInerney (ex commander of 11th Air Force in Alaska) “I spent 35 years flying fighters, and you can see the guidance system kick in, I have watched that film 10 times, I am absolutely certain that that is not an aircraft, but a sub launch ICBM missile!!!” See the video and judge his words for yourself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LivRJOWrcpA&feature=player_embedded#! I will next post a clickable link.
YOUR BROWSER NEEDS THE JAVA RUNTIME ENVIRONMENT INSTALLED BEFORE IT CAN DISPLAY THE AIRPORT MONITOR APPLET.
At any rate, time wise looks like AWE808 is too early, UPS902 is a little late by 8 to 10 minutes. The main thing about UPS902 is the elevation. Was at 29-30 K over the ocean off the coast when a cold weather system was blowing in off the ocean. Cannot see why the contrail would stop. Time is kinda close. Need to verify. Also would like to verify how much light we had at those key times.
Ohhh. And you need to click on planes to get their ID and info. Sometimes the altitude does not report properly. See 500 feet every now and then. Must be default when it does not have the data. You do see altitude reported about 80 % of the time. Set the range for maximum. 80 miles I think. The UPS flight goes off the bottom for awhile. One thing you will notice is not too many planes flying in from the deep Pacific at that time. Only 2 possibilities. Later.
No corkscrew heavy missile plume seen.
Coming in over a distant mountain, thin wispy condensation trail going over our heads, not rising to North/ NW out to sea.
No comparison at all.
Orig report:
“Lit up the sky” ...
“It can’t belong to anyone but the military,” said Marco Caceres, an analyst with Teal Group Corp., a Fairfax, Va.-based aerospace research firm. The appearance of such a massive rocket contrail near military bases that are known for regularly testing missiles is unlikely to be a coincidence, Caceres said.
A more likely explanation, Caceres said: It was a mistake, perhaps a defense exercise launched by accident.
The military does, after all, operate a floating ocean platform and regularly carries out tests at San Nicolas Island, one of the Channel Islands, and Point Mugu Naval Air Station is a missile defense testing site.
Only armchair bloggers say “contrail seen every day- you missile truthers are border line insane” and yes I do indeed quote.
Experts, many many of them, say “Obvious and unmistakable missile launch”.
Jane’s missile magazine EDITOR says “missile launch”.
McInerney says “missile launch”. As I posted before:
I introduced you to the Jane’s missile magazine editor, Doug Richardson, who seems to have instantly and without any doubt at all confirmed it as a missile launch–please check my previous posting about six posts back. Do you recall the interview that he gave to the Times of London newspaper? Actually, this was my first post on the matter, because I believe Jane’s missile magazine Editor to be such an authority and expert.
I introduced you to the former US ambassador to NATO and the former Undersecretary of Defense, Robert Ellsworth, and his unequivocal statement could be seen and heard in the Fox news video interview, and you can see him smiling and laughing as he says these exact words: “Spectacular! That is a missile! It takes your breath away!!!”
It does take your breath away.
Then he went on to say “That is a very large missile, submarine launched, and you can tell it is of great size by the tremendous amount of smoke that it is putting out.”
And then I introduced you to a very famous Thomas McInerney, three-star retired lieutenant general of the Air Force, very forcefully and authoritatively stated “That is a missile shot from a submarine.”
Caceras, mentioned at top, says “missile launch”.
And each lists very convincingly their reasons.
Remember: “Spectacular. Takes your breath away. Sub launched SLBM !!!”
This is from a man who would know, many many who absolutely would know, not a ranting, sneering blooger.
I wonder what more evidence anyone in the world could ask for?
Sorry guys, in this case I just gotta go with the experts who have experience, expertise, brains, and good reputations on this one.
“Missile launch”-— backed up by the people noted above, who are experts with expertise and have given their reasons with which I agree -—and can also see with my own two lyin’ eyes.
The arrogance of people like you, aruanan, is absolutely breathtaking. You REALLY think a whole helluva lot of people are either outright liars or very, very stupid, much stupider than you, so very stupid that they can't see what is to you obvious upon reflection and studying the take on a website created by a rather suspicious person or group, where you have ZERO proof that the still shots from LB are of the same event and which indeed look very much like they're NOT. And they're taken from Long Beach, about 25 miles south-east (and behind a large and prominent Palos Verdes range of bluffs and hills) of where the video cameranan reportedly was. Looking at that photo on contrailscience and comparing it with the video and saying they're of the same event is ... well, you can contort your thinking to buy if if you want, that but that's your business.
You actually think that your armchair web-breezing of photos and the conclusions you draw from it, are better than the armchair opining of a) Air Force generals; b)editor of Jane's, the definitive word in defense missiles; c) dozens of FReepers who claim military experience working with missiles (I have read pretty much post on every single thread on this issue -- have you?); d) FReepers who are close to the same; e) FReepers with life-long experience watching live missile shots and who have spent decades, if not whole lifetimes, around the busy skies of the L.A. area and know contrails when the see them; and f) a professional camerman with 11 years of experience flying and filming in L.A. area skies --
-- YOU people all think you're quite a lot smarter than these other folks. TWO of you I know (because I believe you) have actually seen missile launches and are familiar with the L.A. area, its geography and coastal skies, Names Ash more than most, but NAH lives in San Diego, not "here" as repeatedly claimed on these threads. As for the rest of you -- really, I'm curious. I wish you'd respond in a five-word post with a simple yes or no to these questions:
1. Have you ever watched a missile launch live?
2. Have you watched more than five missile launches live from a range of 160 miles or less?
3. Have you lived for a year or more in the greater L.A. area from Malibu to Newport Beach within 25 or 30 miles of the coast?
4. Have you watched both airplanes and missile launches with the aid of binoculars?
5. Have you watched this video?
All I can say is the cameraman must be a moron of titanic proportions of he, professional that he is and equipped with all manner of zoom lenses (see, this is where those of us with actual EXPERIENCE using binoculars while watching planes and missile launches gets how absurd the "camerman was fooled!" argument is) was duped into thinking this was a commercial airliner.
Frankly, you folks who want to believe that it's an airliner can go ahead and believe it, but many of us here know who's kidding who.
There is, of course, but it's BELOW the local horizon. It's lighting the clouds from the bottom. In fact, the first headline anyone wrote on this event was "Missile Lights Up LA", and that's what they were referring to.
When you look at the area ABOVE the clouds, it's darker because it's SHADOWED by those clouds.
There are also clouds in the foreground that are totally within the Earth's shadow of course, but they have nothing to do with much of anything except they are at a far lower altitude and are not between the object and the Sun.
So, yes, that proves the object is traveling from West to East ~ and we know that because the cirrus clouds in the distance are between the contrail and the Sun over the horizon.
There is, of course, but it's BELOW the local horizon. It's lighting the clouds from the bottom. In fact, the first headline anyone wrote on this event was "Missile Lights Up LA", and that's what they were referring to.
When you look at the area ABOVE the clouds, it's darker because it's SHADOWED by those clouds.
There are also clouds in the foreground that are totally within the Earth's shadow of course, but they have nothing to do with much of anything except they are at a far lower altitude and are not between the object and the Sun.
So, yes, that proves the object is traveling from West to East ~ and we know that because the cirrus clouds in the distance are between the contrail and the Sun over the horizon.
Numerous people have posted seeing this on quite a few blogs now. It is silly to deny those reports. This missile was speculated to be 35 miles out by the helicopter pilot. If it was launched from San Nicolas Island it would have been about 50 miles from the Helicopter Pilot at launch. Heading westward.
Or
could have been 60 or more miles out, no one knows ...
Great, great photos of the Universe. Thanks
My opinion, for what it’s worth, after spending many years examining, observing and imagining objects in the sky, is the event that occurred off the coast of California recently, was a missile launch.
I agree.
From the link:
“MISSILE MYSTERY: On Monday night, a KCBS helicopter captured a gorgeous shot of a missile taking off into the golden sunset off the coast of Los Angeles. But it’s something of a mystery as to who launched the missile, according to CBS News: “A Navy spokesperson told KFMB-TV San Diego it wasn’t their missile. He said there was no Navy activity reported in the area Monday evening. On Friday night, Vandenberg Air Force Base, in California, launched a Delta II rocket, carrying an Italian satellite into orbit, but a sergeant at the base told KFMB there had been no launches since then.” Launches along the coast are fairly common, and some have speculated it was a private rocket launch. Stay tuned.”
Somewhere I read or heard “That missile is big; burning a lot of propellant.”
That’s what I saw too.
Re: the several very nice unrelated contrail photos:
proving my point
look how thin it is next to the jet exhaust
then, look at it MILES back, it is much wider but CLEARLY distinctive of each engine!!
Right.
we have seen arrogance on high display here among people who assume an immense amount of stupidity and ineptness on the part of pretty qualified folks who openly state their opinion that the video showed a missile launch.
For every “expert” you put up for your side, I believe I could put up ten for my side. Here’s one:
“A missile would look like that,” said Bowers, whose 27-year career has included stints as chief or lead engineer on such programs as the SR-71 spyplanes turned over to NASA by the Air Force.
“It could potentially have a contrail that shape,” he told the AP. “(But) the motion looks a little suspect to me, and my conclusion would be that, yeah, it’s most probably an aircraft.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/11/AR2010111101446.html
I’m the author of the blog post that (prematurely) identified US Airways 808 and settled on UPS902 as the source of the contrail.
I’m not a pilot or a missile tech, but I was able to use resources available to virtually anyone to solve the mystery of the contrail.
Yet, there are people who still believe this was a missile plume. If you’re qualified to make that statement, you should probably be sufficiently able to provide proof. There are enough fixed data points now (fixed cameras, time of day, distances, directions) to triangulate a launch position, the missile velocity and bearing. Given the calculated speed, the missile class should also be evident.
One should be able to find ample tools and data available to anyone to provide trajectories, even theoretical, plotted on a map, 2D or 3D, that support your theory, and also match the dozens of documented photographs of the Nov. 8 “plume” from various angles. Why hasn’t anyone stepped up to do so? With all these self-proclaimed pilots and missile experts out there, seems like they should be able to provide even a simple diagram of a rocket launch off the coast of California that could reproduce the contrail, as photographed, up and down the coast.
The contrailscience.com editor and I have backed up our claims, independently, using separate reference photographs to support our shared conclusion that it was UPS902. Where are the same, fact-based findings from the missile theorists? Seems like the Jane’s guy could make a single phone call to a contact to get that kind of report. It isn’t the type of research that takes days and days of work.
For just about every rocket launch, a contrail photo could be provided that looks similar, and vise versa. That’s not substantial evidence. Lets see a flight path.
“The pilot says he saw an identical plume a day or so before. Do you believe him?”
Can we have a link please so we can hear him for ourselves ?
Anyone got one?
It’s not that uncommon.
Everyone who was there said “Never seen anything like it before”
What would be odd is if an ICBM were launched 30 miles from a city of ten million and almost no one noticed.
I don’t agree. Other reports have been made
and the orig report started off “Lights up the sky”. Which is what rockets do from Mugu and Vandenberg or closer.
No one knows how far away this incident was -—10? 35? 100?
I am not in LA just now. Anyone ... ?
For what it's worth, I live with a person who literally makes a living understanding lighting and perspective with regard to aviation. He could certainly be considered an expert. He has watched this video many times, and shakes his head everytime at folks who don't see what to him is obvious from the lighting. But then again, because he taught lighting and perspective at college levels, he does get that for some people (yours truly, for example!!!), the art of visualizing objects in motion in 3-D comes very slowly and with much patient explaining. HE is not arrogant, you see. For that matter, I don't think you are either, Mu, and I appreciate the lack of it in the tone of your posts. You stand apart in a good way from a lot of the contrail-hyping folks I see here, who show a level of arrogance that is stunning.
750 and rising, good post DTOM2009
Thanks !
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.