Posted on 09/08/2010 4:39:30 AM PDT by yokami
“I think if you surveyed the soldiers, they would not claim to be fighting for people like that.”
I HAVE surveyed the soldiers, and they say that is EXACTLY they kind of thing they are fighting for. Freedom of speech is not reserved for speech that is commendable. We have to stand up for it even when it makes you sick.
Perhaps this preacher is proving a bigger point that although his act of burning the Koran is reprehensible, he is free to do so. As is the guy building a mosque at GZ. Neither are a good idea.
Then people this demented need to be done away with. If they are truly moderate, they will shrug it off.
For every US serviceman killed in a Whatshitstan country, we should be burning 10,000 of these books at Ground Zero and rosting bratswurst over the flames...
I will personally go down there and piss on that fire if it will make the godless towel-heads feel any better.
Your response is EXACTLY why the Freedom of Speech is appropriate to the INDIVIDUAL and not the collective.
Clearly this other person disagrees and should act as HE sees fit and reap the consequences. You should not - nor should I or 0bama or Petraeus - have the ability to shut down this INDIVIDUAL’s right to Free Speech because none of us can predict the future and we, as a collective, have no business trying to take away this person’s INDIVIDUAL protected rights.
You do not have a “right” if other people can take it away with peer pressure.
Christians are decent loving folks, we don’t want to kill anyone
This is the problem - and you are right - no one wants to kill - but when when family and nation - the way of life on the line - we have - and we have been very effective at it. What our enemies count is exactly what you have said. The few of us that have had direct experiences with Islam - didn’t enjoy the experience - but we also realized that it had to be the way it was. That’s Islam - very violent - very deceptive.
Israel went through the same - before it came into nationhood - Jews had always taken it - been peaceful - didn’t want to kill - but the early Jewish defense forces - came to realize that Muslims must be confronted and in a violent way. Of course, they played the victim when they were beaten. Most US citizens don’t even know how to hunt - but Muslims in the Middle East are surrounded by death - they have no problems dealing out death - and we need to get back to the point where threats are meet with strong deterrents - and the US continues to withdrawal from that approach - and it’s not good...if you were over in Iraq for the years I was - you’d see that I’m not naive - but see things and have experienced things that I understand only because of the close proximity to Muslims...
We also have the ability to return to peaceful existence – but we should stand up for our way of life once and for all…that’s all I’m saying…
“It’s pointless.”
The point is to send a message that we don’t respect the Koran or those who killed out countrymen based on it. It also sends the message that we are not intimidated.
“It won’t convert a single Muslim.”
Irrelevant.
“It won’t prevent a single instance of Muslim immigration into the US.”
Perhaps the most extreme would be discouraged, which is a good thing.
“It won’t expose a single act of Leftist hypocrisy (claim to support women’s rights while supporting Islamic women’s slavery, eg).”
It exposes the hypocracy of their supporting a Mosque at ground zero as religious freedom, but not the freedom to burn a koran.
“It’s dangerous. US military personnel will die who wouldn’t have otherwise died.”
Nonsense. Note that muslims are not concerned that building a mosque at ground zero will incite Americans here or in the military to kill more muslims. Backing down will show weakness and THAT will incite muslims to kill more Americans. An act of defiance will not.
“Pointless and dangerous is a bad combination.”
So is being weak and intimidated.
“Do you want to be the person to explain to the parents of the dead soldier that the reason s/he died is so that this church could engage in a pointless and dangerous exercise?”
Nonsense. The muzzies need no more excuses to kill Americans. do you want to explain to the parents of innocent Americans killed in the next terror attack that they died because the muslims were emboldened and inspired by our backing down?
No, but I defend their right to say those things, I just don’t think having “free speech” means you also have the right to make your free speech anywhere you feel like, in opposition to other people’s rights. Rights have to be protected on all sides.
But if they were just protesting on street corners on weekends, I would oppose the government trying to make them shut up by blaming them for soldier’s deaths.
Does anyone have a good source for very cheap copies of the koran? Probably too late to order them online without payingg extra for overnight delivery though.
We have as much of a right to denounce this “pastor” as he has the right to burn a Koran.
Freedom of speech works both ways.
I agree completely.
EarlJam,
I know nothing about this church, but ON THIS I agree with them and I’m glad we live in a nation where we are free to protest.
Additionally, as a thinking conservative, I try to avoid the cult of personality. I agree with Glenn Beck & Sarah Palin on a lot of things but it doesn’t mean they do all my thinking for me.
Likewise this church and its leader. Maybe this is the only issue where I might agree with them. If the Mosque is ever built at Ground Zero I’ll make a point to spit on its sidewalk as I pass by too.
Hate?
Hell yeah!
I disagree. Peer pressure is a valid exercise of the rights of individuals as well. Your right to say what you want doesn't preclude my right to make you look like an idiot for saying or doing stupid things.
My objection is to an agent of the government, a high-ranking military official particularly, threatening a citizen's exercise of their freedom of speech by blaming them ahead of time for the deaths of soldiers.
It may not have been quite as eggregious if he had simply noted that attacks on the Muslim faith do stir up opposition to our efforts to placate the local population, without singling out the guy and suggesting that dead soldier's families should blame the guy for their deaths.
No government official should have ANY comment about a specific individual's exercise of their freedoms, because it serves a chilling effect. Comment on the message, not on whether or not the person should be making the message.
But other private citizens have every right to attack the guy for his actions, to call him a fool, and to make public pleas for him to change his course of action.
I love it!!!
So far I agree with everything you are saying. Are we talking past each other here, FRiend?
So Terry Jones supports “cheer every death of every US soldier” and there are people here who support him (on another issue)?
Do I have that right?
This will tell you all you want to know about his church:
************************
In Support of Westboro Baptist [Dr. Terry Jones “burn a Koran” supports Fred Phelps]
Dove World Outreach Center ^ | April 21, 2010
Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 10:28:57 PM
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2584978/posts
Yeah. And I don’t get it.
No it's not. Nobody is saying he must be stopped. I don't see any laws being pushed to ban the burning of this book or any other. This is more like the Ground Zero mosque issue. They have the lawful right to do it - but is it the smart thing to do? This preacher has the right to burn this book. But he is accountable for the aftermath. From the media and how the are using this story to the Lefts advantage, to revenge killings that most assuredly will happen.
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