Posted on 05/03/2010 3:31:46 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
I will follow this with interest.
Thanks for directing me here...
You make excellent points. Our border is so open, our social welfare programs so generous, that we often cannot imagine what might happen with a more sober system. Both the US and Mexico could develop economically.
Paul is an extremely muddled thinker. As such, corresponding with him is probably a waste of time.
So the Egyptians forced the Jews to build their temples and the Israelites forced the “aliens” to build their temple.
I don’t think our illegals would care for that arrangement.
My dignity has to be in this somewhere and the RC hierarchy has some people in it who don't care.
Dignity? That is how the church represents illegal immigration? The church used to be tougher than that. They used to expect people to perform and provide for themselves. Now the church wants people to mooch off of others. Mexico is a sewer because of Mexicans yet we Amerians are supposed to hand over our country.
One of the things missing from this discussion every single time is that these jobs shouldn’t actually exist. They should be filled by able-bodied Americans who are unemployed and living on government checks.
In our area in Ohio construction companies were caught hiring and paying illegal immigrants under the the table. That was for them both a pay break and a tax break....until they got caught.
But to suggest that construction labor in this area is “unwanted” at any time is simply a lie. In this age of high unemployment it is simply not true with any job.
There is zero need in this area for immigrant labor for jobs that Americans will not take. The Americans in this area will take all the jobs they can get. In the northern Ohio area I used to pastor in, there were always working class people in the church who became the pickers for all the large berry farms in the area and in Michigan. To suggest Amerians won’t be pickers at harvest time is also untrue.
I cannot see how “dignity” becomes an issue. No one has a problem with legal immigration. If they want to come here then apply through the legal process. If the legal process doesn’t provide enough cheap labor then the govt can create more slots.
Seems dignity would be more of a concern for the virtual slave labor these folks are going through than their ability to be here illegally.
Its not about dignity, its about redistribution of Americas wealth back to Central America. Up until the crash the second largest component of Mexico’s GDP was money sent back to families in Mexico.
But, guess what? I get to choose who I allow to become part of my household, and any person who presumes that he can choose to sneak in is at risk of my severe displeasure (perhaps deadly displeasure).
At the heart of the arguments of the supporters of the illegal immigrants, is the idea that their "need" gives them sanction to take what is not offered.
Illegal immigrants are invaders.
Actually, it is not. Not at all. We met Paul and found him a very engaging and personable man. He is a retired Marine Lt Col and his service to the nation is very impressive - multiple foreign postings in hot and dangerous situations. It was my honor to meet him.
He comes at this question from his own perspective which is worth a hearing, and as the Mrs doing, a vigorous rebuttal.
What about the families left behind?
February 26, 2007
Mexican wives want U.S. to return husbands
The women of Tecalpulco, Mexico, want the U.S. government to enforce its immigration laws because they want to force their husbands to come back home from working illegally in the United States. (snip)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/feb/26/20070226-010345-3459r/
Wow! I’m e-mailing that to Paul Simoneau.
This debate is not about 'dignity': it is about envy and greed - specifically the envy and greed of many illegal immigrants who are demanding the fruit of another's labor.
The system is distorted: legal immigration is practically impossible. But the solution is to fix legal immigration, not to make the fruits of illegal immigration even more poisonous than they already are.
I cannot in good conscience support anyone who would give someone else's bread to the hungry, and call it charity. Christ does not accept stolen goods.
I understand the church’s viewpoint & compassion, but they should consider the sovereignty of the United States. Mexico is a rich country. The church should be lecturing them about making their own country a place where their citizens can live & prosper. All the graft & corruption is making that impossible, & they are willing to give their own citizens maps to get here, besides alerting them not to go to Arizona for fear of getting caught. Guess that the money these people send home is what counts.
The scariest thing is that we are not just talking about illegal Mexicans any longer. I don’t know if you saw the pictures of folks on the border finding Islamic clothing, army uniforms, shawls & paraphanenalia on their property. How does the church condone leaving the borders open for terrorist to invade us?
I don’t think they are checking all their facts & if they are, & still think that we should have open borders - then there is something very wrong with their thinking. Sure, Mexicans are people...and so are terrorists. All of the Mexicans, like the kidnappers & drug pushers do not give one darn about the peons & jobs. They are totally working in another arena.
It would be interesting to hear what Paul thinks about that. Is that a Christian attitude to have?
It seems to me that America is stealing the cream of the crop from Mexico - the hard workers and those who are brave enough to face the challenge of a new country. These are the very men that Mexico needs to provide local leadership and stability.
here is the letter I wrote to the rev and hopefully he will hear form many like me who have respected the laws of this great country and who believes in the rule of law
I came here 16 years ago for the American dream, I had just left the military in the UK and looked around where I thought what for, why did my mates die? Why did I get shot at and nearly lose my life?
I saw how many were depending on the Govt and how Govt intrudes in peoples lives.
I found a job and got a visa down in London, that is a 200 mile trip from where I lived.
I came here and paid for my flight, I did the job so good I was asked to stay on for another couple of years and I did .
I then had to return back to the Uk and go to the Embassy again.
I paid for all of this and got a bank loan during this time met a woman and we became friends then we started going out.
We got married and I went back to the Uk again to finish things up there.
I got 4 jobs working over 80 hours a week as working was the way I knew I would get my American dream.
We waited for years until we could afford to have children as I grew up in foster homes and Govt social services I never wanted that for my children
We now have been married for 14 years and have 3 beautiful children, a house paid off though it is a small house in a blue collar working class area.
We never wanted Govt or anyone to hep us and during this time I went for interviews, paid my fees, did the paper work etc over years to become American
Now I do not think it is fair what so ever that those who live next to America can walk across, gain access to many social programmes and demand that they have to stay now.
I came here with the knowledge that I respect the laws.
it is not right nor is it fair for those others to come here and be given amnesty.
they should go back to the country of origin as directed by law and then apply for a visa like everyone else does.
I understand your kind approach but helping those who broke the law is not right nor is it fair and it only helps others to break the law.
With out laws the country would and is breaking down , you only have to look at the border states and see how illegals demand that they be given the rights for what others have worked for
I hope you access your view on this and not help those who break the law as it is not helping
Originally published 01:03 a.m., February 26, 2007, The Washington Times
The women of Tecalpulco, Mexico, want the U.S. government to enforce its immigration laws because they want to force their husbands to come back home from working illegally in the United States.
They have created an English-language Web page where they identify themselves as the "wetback wives" and broadcast their pleas, both to their men and to the U.S. government.
"To the United States government -- close the border, send our men home to us, even if you must deport them (only treat them in a humane manner -- please do not hurt them)," it reads.
In poignant public messages to their husbands, the women talk about their children who feel abandoned, and worry that the men have forsaken their families for other women and for the American lifestyle.
"You said you were only going to Arizona to get money for our house, but now you have been away and did not come back when your sister got married," one woman writes to a man named Pedro. "Oh how I worry that you have another woman! Don't you love me? You told me you love me."
It's a stark reminder of an often forgotten voice in the U.S. immigration debate -- the wives, children, parents and villages left behind as millions of workers come to the U.S., many of them illegally. The plea also underscores the dual effects of migration on Mexico: Its economy needs American jobs as an outlet for workers, but determined, able-bodied workers get siphoned out of Mexico.
More than 10 million Mexican-born people, or nearly one out of every 10, was living in the United States in 2005. And as a percentage of the work force it's even higher: One in seven, or 14 percent, were here, according to the Migration Policy Institute. The institute said 77 percent of Mexican workers in the U.S. were younger than 45, and 70 percent were men.
Villages devoid of men between 20 and 50 are common in many parts of the country. The stories of single mothers struggling to raise their children are just as frequent.
The women of Tecalpulco have come up with one way to cope. They run an artists' cooperative to sell traditional-style jewelry, including through the Internet. The page where they make their personal pleas, http://www.artcamp.com.mx/venga/, is a part of their Web site.
One of the women writes to "Ruben" telling him their children haven't seen him in three years and ask where he is.
"I know we agreed you should try your fortune in the United States, but I didn't know that it would be so lonely and that you would be gone for such a long time, please return to us," she writes.
Mexican officials are aware of the social and economic consequences to their towns and villages. But businesses and government officials on both sides of the border also acknowledge a sort of grand bargain -- the U.S. gets cheap labor, while Mexico has an outlet for its unemployed, who in turn send cash back home.
Mexican President Felipe Calderon in December, while visiting Nogales on the U.S.-Mexico border, said his country needs more foreign investment to try to keep jobs at home.
"The generation of well-paid jobs is the only long lasting solution to the migration problem," he said, according to the Associated Press.
But for now, Mexico is also addicted to the influx of cash. In 2006, Mexican workers in the United States sent $23 billion back to their families in Mexico, an amount that rivals Mexico's foreign income from oil sales.
Steven Camarota, research director for the Center for Immigration Studies, which backs less immigration and a crackdown on illegal aliens, said the women's stories show that the huge migration flow is "very disruptive to the lives of those other countries."
He said it also proves that the men aren't fleeing poverty.
"These women would not be asking their husbands to come back if they themselves were starving," he said. "It's really more of people wanting more, a better life. It's perfectly understandable. But that's different than these people fleeing such desperation there's no way you could enforce the law."
Isn’t it wonderful when those in positions of authority in a religious order misuse and misquote scripture?!!! David’s calling together of “aliens”... why manipulate the context to make them into the modern day illegal aliens”? Because misusing scripture has been the grounds for so many actions for nearly 2000 years of church history.
And all this to “protect the dignity” of lawbreakers? Give me a break.
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