What About Abortion in Cases of Rape and Incest? Women and Sexual Assault

Life News ^ | 4/5/10 | Amy Sobie

[Albion Wilde]

Excellent post.

[bcsco]

The problem is that you are NOT arguing the scriptural position.

So you, Eagle Eye, and Hank Kerchief say. But why should we take your word for it? Frankly, I choose what I understand from my reading of the Bible through prayer and supplication for understanding. And I disagree sincerely with the lot of you. You disagree with us. So be it.

But I will take my understanding and feel very comfortable with it, knowing I will never, ever, argue on the side of allowing abortions to happen because it's wrong for government to intervene one way or another.

As someone Hank invited here pointed out, perhaps the best way is to end the debate and go to God in prayer that all people see the wisdom in ending the abomination that is abortion.

Good day.

[MrB]

You seem to have made a moral judgment about me based on a single post in defense of the arguments made by another poster.

No, I haven't. You have INFERRED that I have, and blame me for your inference.
Again, "you" are defending from a non-attack.
Go ahead and punch at shadows if you please.

Back to the issue. Abortion. The occurrences of abortion before the heart starts beating, if you want to use that as a starting point, are nil.
THERE IS NO REASON TO BEAT THIS DEAD HORSE.

[metmom]

You’re telling everyone to back off on the invectives against another poster and are totally SILENT on the invectives BY the other poster.

Why chastise so one sidedly?

[metmom]

The fetus is alive whether there is blood in it or not.

Saying that the life is in the blood does not say that without blood there is no life.

[MrB]

Because there is no expectation of the other side backing off of the invectives...

[P-Marlowe]

Why chastise so one sidedly?

Frankly metmom, it is because I know you and I don't know Eagle Eye.

I hold you to a higher standard.

[P-Marlowe]

If it is wrong, it cannot be a valid argument.

Obviously you are not a lawyer.

[Eagle Eye]

So let's knock off the invective diatribes against Eagle Eye on this point.

Wow. Thanks x 10!

[MarkBsnr]

Abortion is not murder of a human being

Then what is it?

[tuckrdout]

My mother in law told me why she is a believer in abortion. As a nurse, before abortion was legalized, she had a 12 year old patient that was raped by her step father, and became pregnant. She said she didn’t think that it was fair for that child to have to have that baby.

I pointed out, that since the girl could not have an anonymous abortion, the rape was discovered and the perp was sent to prison! Legalization didn’t help this little girl. The fact that abortion was illegal helped this child!

If this had happened after legal “safe” abortion, the man would, as many have since legalization; forced the girl to have an abortion at planned parenthood, and kept on abusing her! As it is, the abuse was stopped.

The girl actually was able under the pre-1974 laws of Washington State to have an abortion....in a hospital, with the full knowledge of her mother, and the police.

I wonder how she is now? Bless her heart.

[Eagle Eye]

Any failure to meet full expectations and one is lumped in with abortion doctors.

I really, truly find it a wrong and distasteful procedure but I’m tired of smears against those who don’t toe the line.

Any politician that wants to eliminate 98-99% of all abortions some how is labeled as pro abort.

It is the race card for this issue.

[Hank Kerchief]

“’Abortion is not murder of a human being’

Then what is it?”

Check your dictionary. I’ll not do your homework for you.

Hank

[MarkBsnr]

“’Abortion is not murder of a human being’

Then what is it?”

Check your dictionary. I’ll not do your homework for you.

First I'lll check with Exodus 21:

22 "When men have a fight and hurt a pregnant woman, so that she suffers a miscarriage, but no further injury, the guilty one shall be fined as much as the woman's husband demands of him, and he shall pay in the presence of the judges.

At least the Jews then understood that the unborn have some validity. Let us consider the wisdom of: http://socyberty.com/languages/merriam-webster-says-abortion-is-murder/

Merriam-Webster Dictionary Says that abortion is:

1: the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: as a: spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation

Question: what about the remaining 28 weeks? Is it then murder?

When reading this definition the word termination sticks out. Let’s define termination

1: end in time or existence

Wow, the end of an existence. Now the definition of abortion also states that it is the DEATH of the embryo or fetus. To die, wouldn’t that mean it were alive? Also it states that it is “spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus”. Wow, it is human after all.

Read more in Languages: « “Sheeps” of a Feather Flock Together10 Tips for Learning Languages in a Fun Way »Let’s try the word existence.

C (1): the totality of existent things

(2): a particular being

d: sentient or living being

Now we know what a living being is. We can understand what a particular being means. What about the word sentient?

1: responsive to or conscious of sense impressions

2: AWARE

3: finely sensitive in perception or feeling

So then it would be aware, responsive to or conscious of sense impressions. (That doesn’t mean that the embryo can read, write or breathe on its own. It means it can sense impressions.) I like the word aware also. But how about “finely sensitive in perception or feeling”? We obviously cannot prove that by just looking up words in the dictionary, can we?

Now let’s try Merriam-Webster’s Medical Dictionary on abortion.

1: the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: a: spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation b: induced expulsion of a human fetus c: expulsion of a fetus of a domestic animal often due to infection at any time before completion of pregnancy

The animals do this because of an infection. Hmm. Now we are still seeing the word termination. We are still seeing the word death. And the phrase induced expulsion of a HUMAN fetus sounds rather, I don’t know, unnatural. Let’s look up the word induced.

1: to cause or bring about : as a (1): to cause the embryological formation of (2): to cause to form through embryonic induction b: to cause or initiate by artificial means

Obviously we are seeing a lot of the word “caused” in this definition. I am not going to define cause for you but if you want to look it up click here.

So to cause, or induce, is to act or participate in a procedure. (When performing an abortion.) To induce something you must be doing an action that causes that action to be done. Now remember, an abortion means termination. Inducing an abortion means you are terminating the embryo. The medical definition of embryo is:

1archaic: a vertebrate at any stage of development prior to birth or hatching2: an animal in the early stages of growth and differentiation that are characterized by cleavage, the laying down of fundamental tissues, and the formation of primitive organs and organ systems; especially: the developing human individual from the time of implantation to the end of the eighth week after conception

So inducing an abortion and terminating an abortion is the same thing. An embryo dies during this process. The embryo is in fact a “developing human individual from the time of implantation” and with it being a “human individual” that means it is in fact alive and human. So…

Inducing an abortion is terminating a human individual. What do we call it when someone terminates another person? Murder. What do we call it when someone kills a bunch of people? Serial killings. (Like Charles Manson) What do we call it when a lot of human beings are killed for a selfish reason? Genocide.

To wrap it up, thanks to the wisdom and knowledge of Merriam-Webster, we have successfully concluded that, by definition alone, abortion is murder. Those who provide it (or induce it) are murders. Those who do it a lot are serial killers. And since there are a massive amount of these going on that means it is genocide.

You're welcome. I've found somebody who has done your homework for you.

[P-Marlowe]

I really, truly find it a wrong and distasteful procedure but I’m tired of smears against those who don’t toe the line.

Sometimes people get a bit carried away in their zeal. My own view on this subject is that abortion is always wrong, but from a biblical viewpoint it is clear that a fetus is not treated the same in biblical law as a baby. Additionally those who are pro-life, while making the case that abortion is murder, are not all the hot on the idea of sending teenage mothers to the gas chamber, whereas they are willing to see to it that doctors who perform abortions are executed.

Unfortunately the whole philosophical/theological debate is somewhat cloudy. I don't think we will ever get to the point where every abortion is considered a murder, (I don't think the most ardent pro-lifers are willing to argue that point), but I think a reasonable compromise (if a compromise is possible) would be to outlaw all abortions where there is a shedding of innocent blood. Therefore I would suspect that in order to make that claim, there has to be a detectable heartbeat. IMO once a heartbeat is detected, then the mother needs to either start loading up on diapers or contacting an adoption agency.

I think I can argue that position on a biblical basis.

[Salvation]

Then there are women who will die in order to give birth to a child. God Bless St. Gianna Molla!

Catholic Health Center for Women Opens in Manhattan (Gianna Center)
Daughter of Saint Gianna Beretta Molla Attends US March for Life
A patron saint for life (Gianna Beretta Molla)

Pope Canonizes Gianna Molla; Secular Media at a Loss
Bl. Gianna Beretta Molla
Gianna Beretta, Who Died for Her Unborn Child, to Be Canonized (She Refused Cancer Treatment)
Gianna Beretta Molla Offered Life For Her [Unborn]Child
Blessed Gianna[Gianna Beretta Molla]

[presidio9]

I am reminded of why I believe that the next libertarian who impresses me with intellect and flawless reasoning will be the first. You provided me with someone's impressive pro-life credentials, then set about making it impossible to believe that they are yours. You claim that you have done all these things in support of a cause you can't possibly feel that strongly about. You insert the God and the Bible into the conversation in order to directly quote prominent prominent abortion opponents. The idea that "the Bible doesn't support conception" is just plain dopey. We're not talking about Islam here. Very little of the Bible is the actual Word of God. The people who wrote the Bible had no concept of conception. Microscopes hadn't been invented yet. The theory at the time was that sperm was a seed which implanted in the womb. There are plenty of Biblicals to back that up. There are also plenty of lines refer to the unborn as human beings. Meanwhile, nowhere that I am aware of does the Bible specifically declare that the unborn are in any way less than human. Nowhere.

And I have to address this line directly:

The Bible doesn’t support a miscarriage (another name for abortion) as murder. Abortions are INDUCED miscarriages. Calling abortion the same thing as miscarriage is like calling strangulation the same thing as suffocation. The point of contention with abortion is that another human being made it happen.

Any rudeness I exhibited towards you in my earlier post was the result of my equal exasperations at libertarians and other people who can't help making illogical arguments. I don't know you personally. You probabally are a decent guy generally. But I'll repeat myself: There is no reason to oppose abortion, unless you think it's the same thing as murder. If it's anything less, then the mother's rights trump all arguments. If abortion isn't murder, it's no different from plastic surgery, or putting you cat to sleep: No one's business but my own. If a human life is, in fact, at stake, there can be no logical argument FOR abortion. Ever. Including the fact that woman's father forcibly impregnated her. If you have any trouble with this line of reasoning, then thanks for your previous help fighting abortions. You are relieved of your duty. You were always pro-choice. You just haven't figured it out yet. Artificial wombs are coming in the next decade. That should be extra confusing for people like you.

The fact that I have to explain all of this to you makes me wonder whether you are telling the truth about all that pro-life activism. You say you "hate abortion, never encourage it, hope to never see it happen." Why?

They don’t mind heaping condemnation on women who are making the hardest and sometimes worst decisions of their lives.

Abortion is always the worst (and last) episode in one person's life. We condemn the women who have them for one reason, plain and simple: The are murdering their own child for being inconvenient.

[metmom]

Excellent points all.....

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ, and thank you for that beautiful Scripture!

[Alamo-Girl]

Again, thank you so very much for the beautiful Scripture and all your insights, dear brother in Christ!