Posted on 03/13/2010 5:21:54 AM PST by stars & stripes forever
The city of Gilbert, Ariz., has ordered a group of seven adults to stop gathering for Bible studies in a private home because such meetings are forbidden by the city's zoning codes. The issue was brought to a head when city officials wrote a letter to a pastor and his wife informing them they had 10 days to quit having the meetings in their private home. . .
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
“So bible studies and churches are not allowed to put up signs?”
In the neighborhood I’m in, all signs are banned by the CC&Rs except those required to be allowed by Arizona law.
One of my Kiwanis club members is in the forefront of a group trying to stop them. We have another meeting Monday night. It’s an ongoing controversy.
You mentioned to that other FReeper that he was putting up commercial examples in his argument in favor of such regulations. It made me think of a neighbor around the block who operates a small equipment repair out of his garage (mowers, snowblowers, etc). I don’t know whether he operates under a variance (it’s zoned residential) or not, but I’m sure glad he’s around. I’ve used him when there’s something I’m not suited to tackle, and he does good work at a reasonable price.
There’s also the guy who lives outside of town, who fixes up old bicycles. He brings them into town about twice a year, to a relative who lives on a corner of a state highway in town (a residential area as well). The guy has about 50 bikes strewn across the driveway, the lawn, and on the flatbed he hauls them in behind his pickup (parked on the cross street - not the highway). I doubt the relative has a variance for this, but the guy provides a service, and I’d buy from him if I had the need. I’ve never heard of anyone being upset about this. But I’m sure it would take one new resident with a warped view of things, and this guy would be history.
It shows how archaic and provincial the zoning codes and zoning boards have become.
See my post #142...
“One of my Kiwanis club members is in the forefront of a group trying to stop them. We have another meeting Monday night. It’s an ongoing controversy.”
Bring up the fact that many rec centers have been built in small towns across America, and go unused.
We're sure to do that. They're looking at it as a way to make the community more inviting to people moving into the area. But all it will do is inflate taxation in order to pay off the borrowed money. And with the economy as it is, it's questionable value has come and gone for now. But, their heads are hard to crack...
This cannot be allowed to stand.
Taking the Church out of the discussion for a moment, what right is being violated if 7-20 people come over to someones house?
The planners have nothing to do, so they dream up grandiose ideas, and try to push them on an unwilling populace.
My experience has been a lot of these are for "legacy building" and just happen to benefit builders that are politically connected.
This idea about ‘legacy building’ is intriguing. I’m not sure it’s been considered before. I’ll have to bring it up on Monday.
"Quality community"? "Manage the future"? Manage the future, for crying out loud?
Good grief. They sound like they want to be some sort of hippie utopian commune. Made up of hippie utopian control freaks.
This is why individual Property Covenants are better than these one-size-fits-all Zoning Laws -- that can be used as a bludgeon of social control. Against the terrible damage to neighborhood property values that could be caused a Bible Study, fer Pete's sake.
I would say it deserves challenge.
One could passively challenge by open-air assemblies, in the tradition of John Wesley, or by house-churches, or by multiple-use buildings.
Or one could directly challenge it in court.
What I find so frustrating is govt bureaucrats thinking they should even have a say in the matter of people peacefully gathering at someones home. The govt gets away with this because most people can not afford to go to court and fight. Also, if you're dealing with local judges they aren't as independent as the federal judges and almost always side with the local govt because they need it's support.
I don't disagree, but if they did that then people would vote them out of office right away.
This is religious discrimination, plain and simple.
What's so frustrating is why govt employees think they have the power to make it illegal for Christians to gather together and worship God. Also, expanding on that why would they think they have a right to restrict how many people you can have to your home and why they are there.
“My experience has been a lot of these are for “legacy building” and just happen to benefit builders that are politically connected. “
I would say almost all of them ;-)
The problem becomes the city has huge resources to draw on and the individual is paying out of their pocket to fight in court. Also, when fighting city hall it's not unusual to see all kinds of other code violations being "discovered".
This is criminal act of conspiring to intentionally violate the civil rights of the church members.
I could understand reasonable limitations on the number of people at a regular gatherings, but to single out religious gatherings, when it would be legal for a much larger group to meet for a book of the month club discussion or weekly football party, is outrageous.
I genrally hate lawsuits, but the church should get an 8 figure judgment against the municipality, some officials should be jailed over this, and whatever lawyers worked on writing or enforcing this law should be disbarred.
This would be a great way for a city to get more bible studies started. Tell people thay can’t do it.
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