Posted on 03/13/2010 5:21:54 AM PST by stars & stripes forever
The city of Gilbert, Ariz., has ordered a group of seven adults to stop gathering for Bible studies in a private home because such meetings are forbidden by the city's zoning codes. The issue was brought to a head when city officials wrote a letter to a pastor and his wife informing them they had 10 days to quit having the meetings in their private home. . .
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
Thanks for posting the letter, Mr. Rogers. Here’s the restrictions cited by the code compliance inspector:
Religious Assembly,
Small Scale
L2 - Public and Private Schools and Religous Assembly uses shall be located on collector or arterial streets. Conditional use permit approval is required for any other location.
L3 - Public and Private Schools and Religious Assembly uses are not permitted in single family residential structures
L4 - Unlighted Outdoor Entertainment and Recreation uses are permitted in conjunction with Public and Private Schools and Religious Assembly uses; lighted Outdoor Entertainment and Recreation in conjuction with Public and Private Schools and Religious Assembly uses require a Conditional Use permit
Not according to the IRS.
To make that argument is either strawman, ignorance or desperation.
Probably the later
“They want to build a large family recreation center costing millions of dollars, when we already have one that doesn’t get the use.”
Many of these have failed all over the country. Better to keep the town solvent. These people get bored, and think they have to do something. Stop em!
Only if your neighbor is a hypocritical atheist.
A real atheist would come over to fully understand the archaic, medieval, deluded knuckle draggers on parade and then blog that he spent the afternoon confirming his belief in nothingness !!!
You can enact any “rules” you want as a town or as a homeowners association. That neither makes it enforceable nor legal. I sued my homeowners association and beat them. People just have to stand up, and fight back.
Which is precisely why they should be tarred and feathered ;-)
BINGO!
If the issue is parking why don't the neighbors talk with these people. The article says it's only 7 adults so the most we're talking about is 7 cars.
I suspect there is something else going on. Maybe the ethnicity of the Christians or the enthusiasm of their worship. It doesn't really matter. If I don't want the govt telling me who can come to my house I shouldn't allow the govt to tell someone else who can come to their house.
Being a theologian by trade and by belief, and an Army Chaplain of many, many years, I have see all manner of definitions of what people think of when they use the word “church”. Personally, I would consider the small gathering in the home to be a “church”.
You are probably thinking of a big building with parking lot and all kinds of programs.
In my opinion, it is incredibly unAmerican to impose laws that prevent residents of a neighborhood from building their own church building in their own neighborhood. Things such as schools, churches, stores, clubs, etc., MUST naturally be close to those they serve; that is, in residential communities.
The point is that this is an attack on religious freedom that is protected by law. A “church” is when two or more people are gathered in worship.
“If I read the actual code, the city says that “religious assembly uses” are not permitted in private homes. I believe that restriction WOULD be illegal. “
And you would be correct!
“. A “church” is when two or more people are gathered in worship.”
Our laws are based on Constitutional rights.
I’ve been a mayor of a larger suburb and am presently a city administrator in a smaller rural town. From both experiences I can attest that often (of course not always) city councils find out about this stuff when the reporter writing the article suddenly calls for comment on the actions of their 3rd level down employee.
There are 2 ways good (but unaware) councils deal with this: if the employee is not in a union, you bust them down to private in front of the cameras. If in a union you spend 8 months and thousands of dollars working through closed door hearings and subsequent appeals and then in the end announce you busted them down to private.
The council may quite possibly be nuts, but there may be a chance they just had a low level code enforcement person they’ve never met shove this on their radar.
If the issue is parking, they need to outlaw Mariachi parties and Superbowl get togethers and weekend BBQ's and family reunions and while we're at it, lets tell all the neighborhood kids to stay indoors and quit playing street hockey and hide and seek.
This is religious discrimination, plain and simple.
Give me a break. It was only three people. These people should meet anyway and tell the town to go to hell!
I think that's where the zoning and building safety codes kick in. When it's advertised in public, for the public to attend, that's where ADA laws become applicable. Many officials and private citizens cry discrimination when something 'public' is done in a non-compliant building with access not set by ADA legislation. There's a person in my area that throws the ADA-book to associations and businesses to force compliance, gets the state involved - it's not pretty.
“...would you REALLY want your neighbor running a church or anything else very regular out of his house filling up the street with cars...”
We have gatherings for bible studies and prayer meetings in our home and we provide off-street parking for all who come. No bother to neighbors.
So bible studies and churches are not allowed to put up signs?
Not only do we have religious discrimination, they also want to violate free speech.
Sounds like some real 1st amendment hatred going on in this burg.
When I lived in Tehachapi, CA, the local zoning laws doubled the cost of building a new worship center. They applied the same sort of rules used for supermarkets, and required parking and lighting beyond any plausible expectation. And they didn’t just require lights, but BRIGHT lights - high power, tall lights (expensive to install and run).
The new parking lot ended up costing as much as the new building!
I thought the church should have fought it, but I hadn’t lived there long - it may have been a fight would have led to more problems.
However, zoning exists and it is legal. Where I live, you can build an accessory building 4 feet from the property line. You can have a horse corral within 10 feet of a rear property line. But if you want to build a shade for the horses in the corral, it must be 50 feet from all property lines. Stupid, but I don’t have the money to fight it.
They have also been targeting horse arenas (riding areas) that were built under the old code, which required no permit and had no restrictions. They want to make the new restrictions retroactive, unless the owner can prove the existing structure was built prior to the code change.
I consider a lot of it harassment, and the county has admitted they want to clamp down on ‘rural’ uses...but the County is controlled by Tucson votes, and the Tucson voters only care about gimmees.
It shows how archaic and provincial the zoning codes and zoning boards have become. Technology has transformed what constitutes the work place. Also, the question of 7 adults gathering to worship God doesn't affect public safety.
Any govt official associated with telling these people they can't peacefully gather in someone's home should be ashamed of themselves.
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