Obamacare Is Dead and Here's Why [Obamacare Ongoing Thread]

Town Hall ^ | 1-26-10 | Robert A. Levy

[JustPiper]

As the Massachusetts blame game unfolds, the president’s unpopular health bill leads the list. But the substantive provisions of the bill were just part of the problem. Perhaps more important, voters were appalled by how the deal unfolded.

Consider the pre-election giveaway to the labor unions. Negotiators agreed to exempt union contracts until 2018 from the tax on so-called Cadillac health-insurance plans. That backroom bargain not only outraged the voters, it also violated the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution, requiring the federal government to extend equal protection of the laws to all U.S. persons. Of course, not all voters understood the constitutional nuances, but they sensed that something was very wrong; and they reacted.

I have been disturbed by the socialists for years, ever since I learned many members of Congress 'openly' joined the DSA (Democratic Socialists of America). Several years ago, the names were published on the DSA site. (since removed of course) Please post any info you have, many of you have been on this issue for many years, & if we can store it all on one thread, we have our FreeRepublic Warehouse on the enemies of the state. How DO we combat this, when it's coming at us from every angle? When the people have been asleep for decades. Please post anything you have found or accumulated. Also choose a dictator these people follow, of particular interest,those in D.C. who have been quoted with their adulation of one.

Communism- Marxism-Leninism-Stalinism-Trotskyism-Maoism- Hoxhaism-Hoxhaism-Titoism ETC

[MestaMachine]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/21/dems-predict-historic-health-care-vote/

WASHINGTON - With House Democratic leaders confident they have the 216 votes needed to pass a historic vote Sunday on sweeping health care reform, Republicans were focused on the 20 Democrats who were still uncommitted late Saturday and could derail the legislation.

House Republican leader John Boehner said Sunday that Democrats have yet to lock in enough votes.The Ohio Republican told NBC’s “Meet the Press” that the plan is a government takeover opposed by the vast majority of Americans.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and Connecticut Rep. John Larson, chairman of the Democratic caucus in the House, said their party has the votes needed to pass the bill but acknowledged they have yet to nail down commitments from a handful of members.

“There are still members looking at it and trying to make up their minds,” Hoyer said on “Meet the Press” in the hours before the vote. He added that the holdouts numbered in “the low single digits.”

“We think there are going to be 216-plus votes when we call the roll,” Hoyer said.

[HereInTheHeartland]

Where can I find the actually email addresses of the Reps; and not go through the form on their websites?

[MestaMachine]

Here is one list:

Complete List of email and fax numbers for Congress

[thouworm]

Good morning; for vote tally updates, I have found this website to be the most reliable and objective. Doesn’t mean they can’t be wrong, but Hayride is the one I kept returning to yesterday.

Here’s this morning’s update from Hayride

Obamacare Vote Count (Update #138)
Posted on March 21st, 2010 by Ryan Booth Submit

We’ll be updating this entry all weekend. Follow us on Twitter for notifications of the latest updates.

I’m going to church now. I’ll be back at noon, but maybe Scott will update this in the meantime.

Update 3-21, 8:20 AM: Politico has some guesses on how the final undecideds will break. If they are right, then Kaptur, Berry, and Mollohan are the ones peeling off the Stupak group. They think Pelosi can convince Pomeroy to end his politcal career in North Dakota, and that she will get Tanner and Baird to vote yes. Those assumptions are not unreasonable. But they appear to already be counting Rahall’s vote in their starting at 210 for Pelosi, which is puzzling, as he is also part of the Stupak group and has firmly pledged to vote no absent a deal on abortion. So, the deal narrows the Stupak group to six and Pelosi gets Pomeroy and she wins.

Update 3-21, 7:43 AM: There isn’t any news yet this morning, except I saw more confirmation from last night that some unnamed members of Stupak’s group were agreeing to a deal on an executive order. There’s certainly still hope that the deal could fall through, but, at this point, I finally have to shed my optimism. I can write that Pelosi still didn’t have the votes last night, and I can write that I still expect to get Pomeroy, Davis, and Boucher, and that those plus six Stupak members would be the 216 we need to defeat the bill, but the reality is that the bill won’t lose by one vote. Pelosi will simply hold the machines open and convince someone to “take one for the team” and switch his vote. The reality is that, unless Stupak fights back and manages to keep eight or nine members of his group together (or we catch a couple of breaks like with Sanchez), that Pelosi will be able to flip votes on the floor and win.

The likelihood of Pelosi flipping a vote or two during the vote if necessary is why Rep. Gene Taylor (D-Miss) is basically advising members to vote no and run for your life.

[MestaMachine]

Thanks, thouworm. see you later.

[thouworm]

a very vocal Amen!

[thouworm]

“see you later.”

are you going away?

[MestaMachine]

Whoa! I thought you were going to church. not you, Hayride. oh geez!

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/88077-democrat-advises-defectors-to-vote-no-quickly-or-get-treated-like-a-pinata

Democratic defector: Vote no quickly or get treated ‘like a piñata’
By Bob Cusack - 03/21/10 06:54 AM ET
A Democrat who has long committed to opposing healthcare reform legislation has advised his fellow defectors that they should vote no early on Sunday and then immediately leave the House chamber.

Otherwise, Rep. Gene Taylor (D-Miss.) told The Hill, they will be treated “like a piñata.”

Taylor opposed the House healthcare bill in November and is a firm no on Sunday. He suggested it would be a mistake for Democratic no votes to linger on the House floor.

The tactics of House leaders during what is billed as a 15-minute vote are important. It is likely that some firm no votes on the Democratic side will vote right away while others, at the request of House leaders, will wait to register their no until the tally reaches the magic number of 216. Once it does, politically vulnerable Democrats will likely cast their no votes.

[thouworm]

DRUDGE Headline OVERHEARD: Walking into Capitol this morning on phone, Speaker Pelosi tells Hoyer: 'Steny, we have to get to 217. None of these members wants to be the deciding vote'... Developing...

[MestaMachine]

hell waits for that one.

[MestaMachine]

"The evil that men do lives after them, and is oft interred with their bones."...and their careers.....

[thouworm]

This is the morning update from FireDogLake (liberal)

Kaptur A Yes? UPDATE: Ortiz A Yes
By: David Dayen Sunday March 21, 2010 7:12 am

I’m trying to get confirmation on this, but apparently Marcy Kaptur has flipped and will vote Yes, irrespective of the White House deal on an executive order about the abortion language. Kaptur was among the lowest hanging fruit of the Stupak bloc.

However, keep in mind that Stupak said there were 8 members in the room negotiating the deal with the White House today. I had 10 in my Stupak bloc. So Kaptur and one other member (Dahlkemper?) were probably separate from that. This helps the Democratic leadership, but was probably more expected than assumed.

This makes the count 205-209, with Sanchez and Boucher as No’s but being watched.

UPDATE: Solomon Ortiz, who I had as a holdout, will vote Yes. 206-209.

UPDATE II: The Kaptur yes is based on her own words to a local news station. So this is confirmed. Numbers below in a sec:

[thouworm]

Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D., Ohio): “We received assurances last night that we will work with the administration and Secretary Sebelius and the President to ensure existing law is maintained.”

Sunday, March 21, 2010
11:13 am

Kaptured [Daniel Foster]

Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D., Ohio), one of a precious few Stu-packers left, will vote yes on the bill. Greg Sargent reports:

Kaptur made the announcement on WTVG-TV, the ABC affiliate in Toledo, at around 9:50 AM.

The interview is not yet online but I confirmed Kaptur’s quotes with WTGV investigative reporter Zack Ottenstein.

“Yes I will,” Kaptur said, when asked if she’d be supporting the Senate bill. Asked why, she continued:

“We received assurances last night that we will work with the administration and Secretary Sebelius and the President to ensure existing law is maintained.”

That’s a reference to HHC secretary Kathleen Sebelius, and appears to mean that the Stupak bloc was given these reassurances last night at the White House.

It’s unclear right now whether this means the White House agreed to an executive order reaffirming the ban on Federal funding on abortion, or whether White House aides made more general assurances.

The question now is whether more members of the Stupak coalition will follow suit. By some estimates a half dozen of them are still undecided, so if they break towards Yes, it could put House Dem vote counters over the top.

03/21 11:13 AM Share

http://corner.nationalreview.com/

[MestaMachine]

Can they really be this unaware of the abject hatred that will be directed at them from the American public? How can they not help but feel it? It is so thick you can cut it with a knife already.
Do they think they can do this and just walk away?

[thouworm]

March 21, 2010

Stupak: Dems don’t have the votes

Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) said Sunday that Democrats don’t yet have the votes to pass the health care bill.

He told MSNBC in a live interview that a group of eight pro-life Democrats left a meeting late Saturday all still willing to vote no if they aren’t satisfied with the language in an executive order to prohibit the use of federal funds for abortion.

“We are close but we are still not finalized with that executive order,” Stupak said. “We’ve got to look at a few more words...We’re close to getting something done.”

He said he’s looking for language that has a “very practical impact,” especially on the role of community health centers.

“Until we get matters signed, sealed and delivered, our votes are still no,” he added.

“Hopefully we get there,” he said.
Posted by James Hohmann 09:17 AM

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politicolive/0310/Stupak_Dems_dont_have_the_votes.html

[thouworm]

I think they think they will be able to clean up all the mess and political fallout after the bill is signed. They think they are that smart & trust their ability to continue to deceive the people about ObamaCare and/or new crises will emerge to make people forget about this one.

Are they right? As has been pointed out so often they are deceiving their own Congress people.

[MestaMachine]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/85693-whip-watch-the-hills-survey-of-house-dems-positions-on-healthcare-

As of 10:10 AM
The Hill’s survey/tracking of House Democrats’ positions on healthcare reform legislation.
UPDATED: 3/21/10 at 10:10 a.m.

RECENT UPDATES: Reps. Ron Kind, Bruce Braley, Gabrielle Giffords, Kurt Schrader, Glenn Nye, Loretta Sanchez, Mike Capuano, Jim Langevin, Jerry McNerney, Jim Matheson, Zack Space, John Hall, Henry Cuellar, Shelley Berkley, Marcia Fudge, Ciro Rodriguez, Sanford Bishop, Chris Carney, Dennis Cardoza, Melissa Bean, John Tanner, Ike Skelton, Jim Costa, Bruce Braley, Paul Tonko, Mike Quigley, Mary Jo Kilroy, Baron Hill, Tim Holden, Bill Owens, Mike Ross, Bart Stupak, Marion Berry, John Barrow, Harry Teague, Michael Arcuri, Scott Murphy, Harry Mitchell, John Salazar, Tim Bishop, Bob Etheridge, Suzanne Kosmas, Brad Ellsworth, Jason Altmire, Joe Courtney, John Adler, Allen Boyd, Adam Smith, Dina Titus, Chris Murphy, Peter DeFazio, Lincoln Davis, John Boccieri and Charlie Wilson

House Democrats not on this list are expected to vote yes.

All House Republicans are expected to vote no, but President Barack Obama has reportedly called Rep. Joseph Cao (R-La.) to urge him to vote yes. However, Cao, who is a proponent of the Stupak language, is still expected to reject the bill.

If every member votes and all GOP lawmakers vote no, the maximum number of Democratic defections to pass a bill is 37, which would result in a 216-215 tally.

************

They say this is an update, but a lot of the name son this list have already switched....

[combat_boots]

From another thread:

To: Alas Babylon!
I don’t know the show schedules across the country, but I just saw Tom Daschle on ABC This Week touting the Health Care Bill and how it will pass....
Daschle’s wife is a lobbyist with GE. GE has a financial stake in having this “health care” bill pass. Just two reasons off the top of my head:

1. GE has the contract to digitize the medical records (all of them) - do the math

2. GE along with other companies don’t want to pay for health care benefits for their workers any longer.

It’s always about the money.

314 posted on Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:59:44 AM by khnyny

[MestaMachine]

Obamacare Vote Count (Update #139)
Posted on March 21st, 2010 by Ryan Booth

Update 3-21, 10:10 AM (from MacAoidh): I’m working on a piece for the front page (I’ll post a link here when it’s done) which discusses reasons why the assumption of inevitability that Obamacare once enacted will continue to grow is false. As said many times elsewhere, this would be the first social legislation of major scale to be enacted without bipartisan support, and it’s also the first time the majority which would enact such legislation would be likely to be turned out of office immediately thereafter. There are other reasons why this one is different, and I’ll get into those, plus expand on the above, in the piece I’m working on for later today.

A few developments to report: first, TheHill.com reports that Bart Stupak is still negotiating with the White House on an executive order which would purportedly ban federal funding of abortions; this one will go down to the wire, but if Stupak ends up playing ball, moving his group into the “yes” column and dragging Obamacare over the finish line only to find himself double-crossed by the President and the House leadership – which is likely if not certain to happen – it could be the end of pro-life Democrats in American politics.

Second, former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin writes in the New York Times this morning that the real, accurate budget effect of Obamacare isn’t $1.3 trillion in deficit reduction, as Obama claims, or $138 billion as the current CBO score would indicate, or $58 billion in red ink, as Paul Ryan says is the case once the “doctor fix” is put in place, but $562 billion.

Yikes.

And third, the latest count among the cable-news networks has Obamacare with 216 House supporters – maybe. Fox News counts it at 216-215, though their numbers have been shaky from the get-go, and CNN says it’s razor-thin. Rep. John Larson, D-CT, who is the Chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, is bragging that they have the votes. But Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, the House Deputy Whip, admitted to Fox News that it’s not a “hard 216.”

[thouworm]

I was going to say Kaptur got duped in my previous post & then I took it out, but here is Hayride saying same thing!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Update 3-21, 10:10 AM (from MacAoidh):

A few developments to report: first, TheHill.com reports that Bart Stupak is still negotiating with the White House on an executive order which would purportedly ban federal funding of abortions; this one will go down to the wire, but if Stupak ends up playing ball, moving his group into the “yes” column and dragging Obamacare over the finish line only to find himself double-crossed by the President and the House leadership – which is likely if not certain to happen – it could be the end of pro-life Democrats in American politics.

Second, former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin writes in the New York Times this morning that the real, accurate budget effect of Obamacare isn’t $1.3 trillion in deficit reduction, as Obama claims, or $138 billion as the current CBO score would indicate, or $58 billion in red ink, as Paul Ryan says is the case once the “doctor fix” is put in place, but $562 billion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/opinion/21holtz-eakin.html