Posted on 01/16/2010 4:29:20 PM PST by PotatoHeadMick
British soldiers are to be given a powerful new U.S.-made rifle to take on Taliban fighters in Afghanistan.
The Ministry of Defence has spent £1.5million on 440 Sharpshooter semi-automatic rifles, which use 7.62mm ammunition that can kill at up to 900yards.
The order follows concern that the Army's standard issue SA80 A2 assault rifle, which fires smaller 5.56mm bullets, is less effective because its 'kill' range is limited to around 300yards.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
Gub'mint workers, you've got to love 'em
This new rifle sounds like that updated version of the M-14. You know the rifle McNamara killed for the M-16. I think this is the updated M-14 the SEALs are using.
The SA-80 has been a POS. The old FN FAL’s rock.
I am really hot on a DSA Arms updated clones of the FALs.
http://www.dsarms.com/SA58_FAL-Rifles/departments/8/
STG 58’s are a little more moderate in cost:
http://www.dsarms.com/STG58-Austrian-FAL/products/9/
They don’t have any L1A1 rifles in storage somewhere?
Isn’t the SA80 based on the Armalite 18 (AR-180), and didn’t the SA80 turn out to have a huge failure rate in the other desert enveronments?
http://www.eliteukforces.info/uk-military-news/120110-new-marksman-rifle.php
Who is Law Enforcement International a US company that makes the rifle?
Maybe the U.S. forces can get some of these so they are not shooting dinky .223 in Afghan.
SA-80 has been a disaster. The article is claiming the round is not strong enough. Something people told McNamara about the M-16 about 50 years ago.
That was the same thing I was thinking. Goodness they surely didn’t get rid of all those FALs and they were a proven design.
More:
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/land/jdw/jdw091229_1_n.shtml
Industry sources told Jane’s that LEI beat competition including Heckler & Koch’s HK417 (already supplied to specialist units within the MoD), FN Herstal’s SCAR (Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle) and an offering from Sabre Defence Industries.
With the majority of contacts occurring at either very close range or at ranges out to between 500 m and 900 m, the “only organic asset” available to responding UK forces in a small-arms capacity is the 7.62 mm General-Purpose Machine Gun, with MoD sources saying that “5.56 mm weapons lack the reach to engage the enemy at those ranges”.
“The 5.56 mm is sufficiently lethal at the right range, but troops need 7.62 mm for longer ranges. We should be looking at higher performance rounds with higher lethality at longer range. Research is going to filter into user requirements for the soldier system lethality programme,” one MoD source told Jane’s .
Assorted thoughts:
-I’m surprised that the Brits didn’t have a supply of 7.62 rifles of their own already. They already use the round for their L96 sniper rifle, and their light machine guns, so why not keep a few hundred “battle rifles” around?
-I would imagine U.S. troops have had similar complaints about the M4/M16 in Afghanistan. Wide open spaces and long lines of sight, and all that. I’ve heard a number of M14’s have been issued to deal with that problem.
-I’m not sure I completely buy this part of the story:
“It means that insurgents - who use 7.62mm ammunition for their AK47 rifles - back off and shoot at British troops from longer distances.” Half the battles in Helmand province, where British troops.”
The author seems to be suggesting that 7.62x39 outranges 5.56 and is comparable to 7.62x51. I’m not an expert, but I find that questionable. Or is it more about the SA-80 than the 5.56 round?
Why would anybody talk about ordnance with someone who put a back seat in a T-Bird.
I’ve always been a fan of 5.56mm rifles because they served me so well in combat. Its not that a single round is either superior or inferior to a 7.62mm round that counts. What counts is how many rounds you are packing when the shooting starts.
The 5.56 wins by this metric and I can tell you that when my guys were getting down to their last magazine and the resupply bird was having to snake its way through the mountains and the clouds, I was very glad that we were carrying 300 rds per man. The round and the rifle, especially with recent improvements, work fine for normal infantry use.
Now, sniper work is another matter. The 5.56 doesn’t cut it for reasons well explained in the article. The same goes for having to punch through a white Toyota to get the RPG dude hiding behind it. You need some 7.62 rifles along with 7.62 machine guns to get certain jobs done.
Maybe the reporter was thinking of the RPK - looks like an AK (sorta) and fires the 7.62 x 54R - certainly more powerful than the 5.56
It's heavy as a young elephant, but it's accurate and packs quite a punch.
We're back to marksmen now, with a volunteer army that's properly trained, instead of worrying about a bunch of draftees who had never held a firearm and couldn't handle a rifle my 9 year old daughter could shoot. (To be absolutely fair, one concern was the ability to carry more ammunition - but 'spray and pray' has had its day, thank goodness.)
And the 7.62 itself was a downsize from the old .30'06 Springfield. That round packed quite a wallop on BOTH ends, but if you shot somebody with it they stayed shot, even out at extreme ranges.
And HE had to carry the radio as well as his ammo . . . poor guy.
***They don’t have any L1A1 rifles in storage somewhere?***
Didn’t these rifles also have their problems? Bang bang jam. Bang bang jam.
I read that this is why the Israelis quit using them and developed the Galil, a variant of the Valmet AK-47.
***The article is claiming the round is not strong enough. Something people told McNamara about the M-16 ***
If they returned to the 1 in 14 rifling twist, instead of the 1 in 7 twist mandated by European faint hearts, and kept it out of cold environments it would probably kill them deader than Dixie.
And now the Israelis are using M-16s. Go figure.
Okay momma :-)
The SHsTsF - would you be grabbing for the FAL or an M-16?
How about hubby? M-14?
14 inch twist is ok for light bullets. If they plan to use 150 to 168, they need ten inch twist for .30 cal....And we are talking .30 cal. 7.62 x 51 Nato round.
It is not the caliber. You need special skills to engage a person at 500 - 900 meters with a rifle.
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