As I posted on another thread, "Wendell Willkie had evidence that FDR knew about the Japanese prepartions for the attack, and that he should thus be impeached. Willkie was persuaded not to present this evidence in his 1944 Presidential campaign by the Army (the war was still on), since it would reveal that the Japanese code system had been cracked, and so he did not."
FDR wanted to enter the European war. Perhaps he earnestly believed that it was the right thing for the U.S. to do. He also knew that Americans had no interest at the time in engaging in a war overseas. Wilsonianism had been discredited on the left, and the right at the time was fiercely isolationist. An egregious hostile act by Japan precipitated the US entry into war against the Axis Powers.
I agree that FDR wanted to enter the war, and needed a reason that would independently bring along the American public, but I don’t think that included allowing Pearl Harbor.
Like 9-11, there were rumblings about attacks but that is standard before major military engagements.
For example, during that very time, there was sufficient information of an impending German attack on (1) France and (2) Russia. Both times the Germans succeeded brilliantly? Did Chamberlain and Stalin deliberately allow these to happen?
No. What is does validate is that “warnings” and “alerts” are part of standard chatter, and possibly part of standard disinformation, prior to invasion or attack.
About the best we can do is grieve that no one in intelligence put 2 and 2 together more quickly, to avert Pearl Harbor, or 9-11.
That’s another reason why FDR didn’t know. If he had, then he would have let the attack take place but would have had the military at least on alert. FDR was not an American-hating treasonous b-stard like so many American leftists today.
Also, if he wanted to enter the European war, why would he encourage an attack by Japan? If he was trying to create a Gulf of Tonkin incident it might better have been to send an American troopship to England with “observers” and let a German U-boat sink it. Losing a few hundred lives and a single ship is something a nefarious President might do; losing an entire fleet, having a harbor destroyed, and losing 3,000 lives is NOT something any rational person would do.
[Except perhaps Stalin, who sacrificed his entire professional officers corp in the name of the revolution. This is long considered the reason why he was so unable to stop Hitler.]
What was the "deliberate misrepresentation" that got us into the Gulf war? Did Saddam not really invade Kuwait after all?
And what was the "deliberate misrepresentation" that got us into the Vietnam war?
And what other wars did we get into because of "deliberate misrepresentation"? The War of 1812? The civil war? The revolutionary war? Grenada? Bosnia? Kosovo? (Well, yes, Kosovo -- there was no significant genocide taking place).
“Truth is the first casualty of war.”
War may still hold that distinction but history is gaining fast.
Additionally, the ostensible trigger for the U.S actions was the Japanese occupation of French Indochina. Yet Roosevelt was demanding Japanese withdrawal from CHINA as a condition for lifting the embargo. Considering the Japanese had been at war with China since 1937 [1931 if you count Manchuria], and had spent blood and treasure on that war, that condition was a major sticking point in negotiations.
One must also consider the overall context of the U.S moves, on a broader scale. Roosevelt had just spent almost two years trying to get the Germans to declare war on the U.S [Hitler didn't bite]. The Lend lease deals made the U.S a co-belligerent with Britain. Dividing the Atlantic into two defense zones, escorting British convoys, helping to defend Iceland, radioing U-boat positions to British Naval units [and occasionally attacking them], furnishing aircrew for British reconnaissance flights [e.g the co-pilot on the PBY that spotted the BISMARCK]. By the time Doenitz got
Hitler's permission for U-boats to engage U.S destroyers late in 1941, the resultant sinkings did not arouse a demand for war in the U.S, since most people realized what had led to them.
Where Roosevelt may have miscalculated, I believe, was in assuming that, with a minimum of intelligence info, the command team at Pearl, would have displayed greater competence pre-hostility in positioning and using their assets
I am sure FDR knew in advance that Japan would attack America. America’s action against Japan’s source of resources virtually assured Japan would respond. I am also sure that FDR did not know how the attack would manifest itself or if the attack would be economical or physical, or when or where.
FDR knew no more than President Bush knew about when or where the next terrorist attack against America would manifest itself. There had been over twenty years of unanswered terrorist attacks against America and no reason to not suspect there would be more.
What is obvious with nearly 70 years of hindsight was not obvious in 1941.
I think FDR was anticipating some precipitating incident that would get us into the war with Japan, but not anticipating a full frontal assault on American forces in a sneak attack on the fleet. “They wouldn’t dare,” being the operative perspective.
There was a piece he wrote in the 1920’s, “Can We Trust Japan?” I don’t have it in front of me but the short answer was yes.
Although Japan was already expansionist by then, and already very offended by the American attitude toward Japanese (as seen in new immigration law), there was no alarm nor reason for alarm in the earlier decades. A few writers and observers tried to warn us — such as O’Conroy (which I do have in front of me, “The Menace of Japan”) — but they were considered to be in the wilderness. You have to read contemporary sources from that era and avoid post-war history, to get into their heads.
Anyway, in 1941 the Japanese saw themselves as having two options, consolidate their gains to the north, or bite off more toward the south. If they’d taken the first option America might have left them alone; taking the second meant taking out as much as possible the American forces in the Pacific, and they chose poorly.
They were arrogant. We were arrogant, too, thinking they wouldn’t sneak up on us.
Think about it, if FDR had known, he could just as easily have prepared to greet them, and still have gotten his war. It would still have been a dastardly act of aggression calling for a declaration of war, even if we’d hurt them harder than they hurt us.
as much as I dislike FDr I doubt he let Pearl happen...
and I doubt his staff would have gone along...
and btw....they screwed Kimmel....Nimitz as much admitted it
Hey! I know where I last saw that line! That was in a Sean Penn movie about war! Funny that...
FDR goaded the Japanese into it via sanctions. They knew it was coming. After the attack, Hitler thought it wise to declare war against the USA, since he thought that the Japanese would then enter the war against Russia. His big mistake. Had he not done that, we would have sent our resources to the Pacific. The majority of everything went to Europe. The Pacific theater was a side show, but it worked out by getting us involved in Europe, which wasn’t really a neutral stand by us up to that point. We had to save England from being invaded and stop Germany’s influence around the world. There is a lot more than meets the eye when it comes to WW II. You would think we learned from it, not.
You would think that if he did so much research he would have gotten the FDR quote correct. It is not “Day of Infamy” but rather “...A Date Which Will Live in Infamy.”
Below is a link to a respected US Navy Crypto Officer, who was in the Navy Security Group before and after the attack on Pearl.
Mr Jacobsen reviews “Day of Deceit” and points out his knowledge to refute much of what was written and said.
http://intellit.muskingum.edu/alpha_folder/J_folder/jacobsen_p.html
Roosevelt’s actions before Pearl Harbor appeared to ones to provoke the Japanese into attacking our Naval forces. Then we could declare war on the Axis Member, Japan, and have the Axis declare war against us. However, the horror of Pearl Harbor was probably unexpected, and that attack was the official beginning of America’s involvement in WWII.
ping for later
Everyone at that time knew that war with Japan was inevitable. However, does that translate into FDR knowing that on Sunday, December 7, 1941 Japan was going to bomb Pearl Harbor? No. There may have been negligence but there was not malice.
In fairness to FDR, he seems to have been under the belief that the commanders at Pearl Harbor had been warned and could easily repulse an air attack. In truth, the early warnings were not clear and urgent and the last one was not transmitted in a timely fashion due to technical problems.
In addition, there was a lack of recognition by the US government and military about the capabilities of Japanese aircraft. This was due to cultural blindness and an unwillingness to accept contrary information from sources like Claire Chennault of the Flying Tigers.
On the whole, FDR, George Marshall, and Ernest King seem to have expected that the US would enter the war with a stunning defensive victory at Pear Harbor. That would free the US to move aggressively in Europe, with an invasion across the Channel in 1942 or 1943. Meanwhile, the US Navy would have defeated the Japanese Navy in the west Pacific and invested the home islands.
The 9/7 Truthers?
Nope and still nope...
This post of mine may take 5, 10, even 20 or more F5’s ( or refreshes ) to pull up, but it’s still here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b07b4310a74.htm
Pearl! Dec. 7, 1941- what really happened?
Culture/Society News
Source: various websites
Published: 5-20-01 Author: the heavy equipment guy
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Never wondered how the Japanese didn't find any of the carriers at Pearl? Weird coincidence. |
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1 little (Major) problem with that theory. It was Japan that attacked the US, not Germany. If not for Hitler’s declaration of war against the US in the days following Pearl Harbor, FDR would still have had to figure out how to get the US involved in the European fighting. Hitler, in a sense, did FDR a favor by solving that problem for him.
I think about my Dad every Dec 7th. He was a WW II vet, God rest his soul, and he always liked to reminisce about this day when it rolled around each year.