Posted on 11/21/2009 7:26:17 PM PST by jveritas
Today healthcare vote in the Senate was so badly represented by many on our side and of course by the media and was blown way out of proportion. In reality it is a meaningless vote. The vote today was only to start the debate and it is absolutely does not guarantee at all that the current bill in the Senate with it current version of public option aka socialized medicine is going to pass. In fact as it stands now this current bill is assured to be defeated because the socialists are not going to get 60 votes for cloture to end the debate and hence they cannot move the bill for a final vote. In other words the bill in its current form is dead.
Senator Lieberman has said so many times, very clearly, and very adamantly that he is going to filibuster an end for the debate as long as it has any form of public option and he also said many times that he was going to vote to allow the start of the debate as he did today. That is why Senator Lieberman has been for weeks the most hated person among the left wing lunatics. Many people misunderstood and misinterpreted what he has been saying and thought that Lieberman did not follow through on what he said he was going to do.
Senator Olympia Snowe has said that she is going to filibuster an end to the debate on this current healthcare bill if it contains the current form of public option. She wants a trigger public option which in practical political terms a meaningless thing that will never be triggered. In fact today she even voted against the start of the debate.
Now some will say that if the socialists do not get 60 votes to end the debate and move the bill for a final vote then they are going to use reconciliation or the so called “nuclear option”. This is very unlikely because for the use of reconciliation the bill has to go back to the budget committee or finance committee where it is going to be watered down significantly and just includes the insignificant trigger public option or a trigger co-op. Even very left wing Senators like Tom Harkin said that reconciliation will be a very bad thing to do.
What is the most likely scenario?
Most probably they are going to be able to pass a healthcare bill that contains a trigger public option or a trigger co-op which in all practical form is a meaningless gesture because it is not going to be triggered at all in the future. This is the bill that will go to Obama to sign it into law, the democrat politicians and their media will celebrate but their left wing lunatic base will go insane in a way that will shock many. The left wing lunatic base wants a strong public option (aka socialized medicine) as a minimum and is very much against a trigger public option or a trigger co-op because they know very well that the trigger means absolutely nothing and when this happens the left wing lunatic base is going to explode in total anger against the democrat party.
An infinity of AMEN.
God Bless America.
I won’t put anything past Republican or Democrat.
This procedural vote has been hyped by the Obama state media and Reid as historic blah blah blah....
Lincoln and Landrieu were told to play along and play coy so Reid could keep the media attention on this common procedure.
This entire thing was a PR stunt for their left wing base and to help promote this phony Big Momentum PR story !
Thank you! These mice have been claiming dems will win any day now since June.
Wanna buy a bridge?
“The bastards got their 60 vote party line vote. Now, Reid will strip the original contents and insert the “health care” bill contents in place of the original bill. It will only need 51 votes to pass.”
You’re mistaken. Before that happens, this bill has to be decided on. That will take 60 votes.
THEN it goes into conference with the House. That’s when they attempt to reconcile the two bills.
THEN they issue a conference report. That returns to both chambers. In the Senate it can be filibustered before it’s put on the table. If it can’t get 60 votes, it dies. If it gets 60 votes, it is put on the table. Only then will it need 51 votes to pass.
But remember—there’s two huge hurdles still for the dems. If Pelosi tries to muscle Reid and put in a strong Public Option and pro-choice language, it could die in the Senate and the House. Nelson would object to these, so would Lieberman—and probably several others. In the House pro-life dems will go ballistic. So this is far from a done deal.
If it goes to reconciliation they only need 50 votes in the Senate and Biden will cast the tiebreaker.
Excellent analysis. Our side must know enough not to fall for this propaganda BS but unfortunately based on the many irrational and hysterical posts we have seen today on FR this is not the case.
Exactly.
From your lips to Gods ears...
I have a few republicans here (FR and MD) who hate me for being right. I predicted that Obama would win when they said he couldnt. Then I predicted the voters would turn on democrats and in spite of super-majority they would hit gridlock because of big tent diversity and public opinion.
They were so mad at me “No, you are wrong , democrats will pass anything Obama wants” they told me over and over.
It wont go to reconciliation. There are too many problems with that route. Only provisions related to the budget would be allowed to stay. For ex, the ban on excluding preexisting conditions would be stripped out.
Also, since reconciliation is for budget bills, the process would be guided by Kent Conrad chair of the Budget Committee. Key RATS dont want him having that power over the language cause he's not liberal enough.
Why do people fear reconciliation? That would be almost a victory as far as I’m concerned. Why? Because it would gut most of the worst features of the bill. And because it could be nullified in five years—unless the Congress went through this whole process once again. Ain’t gonna happen. It was a bluff—and the GOP called it.
Your attitude stinks - go whine somewhere else
The recalls should start immediately.
I think many were confused and freked out by this vote because its never been discussed before since this vote is very common.
But Harry and the Obama state media SPUN this story and had Lincoln / Landrieu play so to make it as a HUGE victory !!! And the AP does it part with the usual DNC Puff Piece about history is being made ( David Espo Barf Alert).
Please if the VOTE was so much in the AIR why was old George V allowed to go to Cleveland for a party and Sen Bryd allowed to vote from his home .
The GOP could have demanded Bryd vote on the Senate Floor !
I agree with your sentiment but I don't see that happening. Unless there is a sea change in congress the only method would be as follows:
Two-thirds of the state legislatures ask Congress to call a national convention to propose amendments. (This method has never been used.) (that's 34 states)
Ratification would be a whole other thing. (38 states)
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