Posted on 11/21/2009 4:24:18 PM PST by indianrightwinger
Why was it so hard for Dems even to start health care debate? By: Byron York Chief Political Correspondent 11/21/09 6:43 PM EST The extraordinary thing about the dramatic events surrounding the health care bill in the Senate is that there is any drama in it at all. Lawmakers are simply voting to begin debate on their version of health care reform. Just begin debate -- not end it, and not move on to a final vote.
If Democrats, with a 60-vote majority in the Senate, were not able to begin debate on the top Democratic policy priority in a generation -- well, that would be a devastating turn of events, both for the party and for President Obama. And yet just starting debate has proved difficult, and only today did the 60th Democratic vote fall in place in favor of beginning the process.
I asked a high-ranking Republican Senate source whether it was really that hard to get the Democratic votes together. Could it have been a media-fed story, with reporters looking to inject some unwarranted drama into the proceedings? No, I was told. "It really was that hard for them to get to 60 just to proceed," the source said. "Very telling."
And judging by the statements of four moderate Democrats -- Lieberman, Lincoln, Landrieu, and Nelson -- it will be far, far harder when the process comes to the really important vote, the one that would bring debate to a close debate and move on to an up-or-down vote on the Democrats' health care plan. Today all four of those Democrats publicly threatened to side with Republicans and kill the bill before it can move to a final vote, unless their concerns are met.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonexaminer.com ...
It is really insane. The problem is so many people on our side are falling for this propadanda crap.
Nothing is perfect. You can't cherry pick something out of a 12 year rule of the Republican controlled Congress to demonetize Republicans. Are you perfect?What is perfect? Is life? You have to understand also that the Republican Congress was working against democrats, against the lamestream media, against RHINOS ,against a government educated-media-brainwashed general population,against rooms of legislation that democrats passed that mandated increasing government growth with laws that mandating spending increases. Still with all this against them the GOP still didn't pass government controlled healthcare, nor Amnesty for illegals, nor cap and trade, nor the fairness doctrine , nor net neutrality not any of these country destroying bills.
Well the Republicans were perfect tonight in the biggest vote EVER.
Fact:
Tonight , All Republicans voted against this socialist bill. ALL Republicans,every single one of them ,100% of Republicans, voted against turning the U.S. toward becoming a socialist state.
Tonight , All Democrats voted for this evil bill that will put the he U.S. on the road toward becoming a socialist state.
During the 12 years of the Republican controlled congress, none of these country destroying, socialist bills passed ,NONE of them:
1.Government healthcare did not pass (socialism)
2.Amnesty for illegals did not pass(more democrat voters)
3.Cap and trade did not pass (destroys capitalism)
4. Net Neutrality didn't pass (censoring the Internet)
5 The Fairness doctrine did not pass(shutting up Conservative voices on the radio)
ALL democrats are satanically evil , marxist tyrants, wolves in sheeps’ clothing. Proof is in the vote tonight and below.
Are any of you who say democrats and Republicans are the same , are you saying Republicans are all Marxists too? Well you are wrong if you are. Do you know what a Marxist is? I doubt you know what socialism is or why socialism doesn't work or what capitalism is.
The Democrat controlled congress, will pass ALL of these socialist, country destroying, bills ,all of them within the span of 2 years, 2009 and 2010:
1.Government healthcare will pass (more socialism)
2.Amnesty for illegals will pass(more democrat voters)
3.Cap and trade will pass (destroys capitalism)
4. Net Neutrality will pass (censoring the internet)
5 The Fairness doctrine will pass(shutting up Conservative voices on the radio)
All of these bills will turn the U.S. into a third world socialist state where the American people will be starving slaves of the government.
I blame you all who bash Republicans as much as I blame Democrats for the passing of this bill tonight and the subsequent destruction of America and of freedom itself.
At least accept responsibility for what you , Michael Savage, and the rest of you who said Democrats and Republicans are the same have done.If we only had one more Republican senator then we could have stopped this bill tonight with 41 votes. But ALL of you so called conservatives who bashed the Republicans, all of you stayed home and didn't vote ,didn't donate to the GOP,and bashed Republicans depressing conservative voter turnout ,all of you are as responsible os democrats for the passing of this bill.So you are responsible for the destruction of the U.S.A.
I am so angry at democrats that I can't see straight tonight and I can't post what I think of them here because I'll get banned.
The only thing that gives me some hope and reason to be joyful is that ALL Republican Senators voted to kill this bill tonight. God bless you ,every single one of you Republican Senators. I will work for you Republicans and against democrats for the rest of my life.
Can anyone say that they wouldn't rather instead of having to deal with this evil that has risen to power in the Congress, that you wouldn't rather instead go back to the days when Republicans controlled congress, when unemployment was 4%, when none of these marxist bills were becoming law , when we weren't watching our Republic being destroyed before our very eyes, when there was opportunity in America, when America was free and secure.
I hope you liberals and you so-called conservatives who bashed Republicans are proud of the evil you helped bring to power in the Congress, the Democrat party. The democrat party as evidenced by their actions tonight is an evil that will turn the U.S. into a socialist state which will enslave the American people and take away all human rights including the ability to put food on the table.
I think those so-called conservatives who bash the GOP are democrat/marxist operatives. I say this because they relentless and laughingly still say that the GOP is the problem while watching Obama and the Democrats destroy our Republic and way of life.
Well think about this .
Old george Vounvich from Ohio was not required to even be in town for the vote because they all knew that Reid had the votes.
This was PR stunt that the Obama state media help cook up and even Fox News fell for it big time.
Wherever it came from makes no difference. This bill had no business even being considered.
Everyone of these dopes that voted for it without having read it (and I’d like to see any of them even attempt to read AND understand a 2000+ -page bill released only 48 hours prior to the vote) have committed non-feasance, misfeasance, and malfeasance, and are unqualified for the office.
Everyone that read it and understood it have violated their oath of office - you know, the part about the Constitution. We the People did not specifically delegate this power to the government. Article I, and the 10th Amendment, and all that...
Correction:
THREE HUNDRED million dollar bribe!
One dollar for every legal American citizen.
Seriously?
No, nothing is perfect. But just as nothing is perfect, nothing is entirely evil, beyond Satan. Democrats and Republicans both have flaws, and for years, a huge flaw with a large number of Republican politicians is that they were RINOs. They were not true conservatives.
It is not being a “so-called conservative” to call people out on not staying true to the people who voted them into office. Why are there so many Democrats in office? Because certain Republicans didn’t do their jobs. They betrayed the trust that conservatives and even moderates placed in them. Why should they be re-elected? If you keep electing the lesser of two evils, eventually it’ll be as evil as the greater of two evils was at the beginning because they know they can get away with it because of that big fat (R) stay in office free card.
No, not all of them are like that, and tonight they did a stunning job. They had to, but they did. And are you sure they would have all done it if the message had not been sent by the voters who refused to vote RINOs back into office? I’d like to think they would. I admire a lot of them. I trust them to the extent that you can trust a politician. But we’ll never know.
Blind loyalty to leaders who are clearly unfit to serve this country may characterize Democrats (and doesn’t their refusal to criticize their own annoy you?), but I won’t let it characterize me.
Glad you agree with me that nothing is perfect not even the GOP although the Republicans/Gop were perfect tonight as not a single Republican voted to bring this the worst bill ever to the floor virtually ensuring its passage.
Well in my estimation the GOP had about 12-14% RINOS.So because a small percentage of the GOP had RINOS then you and others like you spent all your energy and time propagandizing against the GOP when you should have been working against the Democrat party.
It is Obama and the rest of the Democrats who are destroying our Republic in front of all our eyes. It is not the GOP doing this. The Democrats have total power in the Congress as the past 2 weeks showed. The democrats own the media, the Congress , the presidency , schools ,academia and even have a majority in the Supreme Court. Yet many like you still have the audacity to even take time to write about bashing the now powerless GOP whose all Republican members including the RINOS this time did not vote to destroy our Republic tonight.
Wake up .The threat is the Democrat party. the Democrat party has been the threat for the last 100 years. Remember FDR's new deal in the 1930’s, SSI , welfare etc? Use all of your time and your energies to fight them.Don't fight me . Fight Democrats/Marxist. Bash them at every chance like I do. stop bashing the Republicans not now or ever have been the problem even with an imperfect small percentage of RINOS.The GoP they are completely blameless for the havoc being wreaked upon our Republic.
The only thing that should be done regarding the GOP is donating $$$ to them and maybe helping to replace your hated RINOS with conservatives, but only in the primaries.
Many like you are obsessing about Chao that lone Vietnamese Republican congressman that cast a meaningless no vote in the House.He is in the most liberal/communist district in the country. that we have him to help us get a Republican speaker is a blessing. I live here in New ORleans. I knoww. He has to vote the way his constituents tell him to vote. He only won by a fluke cause of Katrina. It's madness to obsess about him what less than 1% of the Republicans in Congress while the hundreds of Democrats/Marxists are turning the U.S. into a socialist state.
Why would anyone obsess because less than 1% of an organization , the GOP, voted the way you did not approve of while 100% of Democrats are voting to destroy our Country , our freedom , our economy , and our way of life. Unemployment is 10% but many so called conservatives say that chao, RINOS,and even Palin are the problem while Democrats are enslaving us. It's madness or you all are democrat/Marxist operatives.
All democrats voted for socialism tonight. Socialism = slavery + starvation.
All Republicans voted for freedom/prosperity/capitalism and voted against Socialism/slavery/starvation tonight.
This was the biggest vote ever tonight.Republicans showed their true colors at crunch time . Republicans showed they are for America and for freedom and for capitalism. democrats who all voted for tyranny , for socialism for evil, for 2000 pages of capitalism destroying government bureaucracies and government regulations also at crunch time showed their true colors. So those "conservatives" who said the parties were the same are wrong. All Democrat Senators every single one of them tonight voted to destroy our Republic , our beloved America.
We should all work against these Marxist villains who call themselves Democrats.
America must be governed with the consent of the governed not behind the governed , the peoples’, back. America is freedom not tyranny. America is government of the people and BY the people not a dictatorship. Republicans showed they understand that.
Democrats showed that they believe in the religion of marxism not freedom and what America was founded to be.
You say you blame RINOS because they did what the people wanted ?? If they walk on water will you blame them for ruining your lake?I hope conservative realize the threat is Democrats not RINOS. Although RINOS should be replaced with more conservative candidates in the primaries where we can do it this should only be done in the primaries. Democrats should be fought at all other times.
You so called conservatives who can't stop bashing the GOP have to realize that nothing is perfect and even if the GOP has 14% RINOS that is still a good percentage especially when compared to the evil that now rules the Congress, the Democrat party, that IS 100% evil,100% Marxist and they definitely PROVED that today.
Can we reduce the percentage of RINOS in the GOP . I guess if we try maybe but we have to concentrate on eliminating the most dangerous enemies as we can't do everything at one time nor fight every enemy at the same time. It is my opinion that we should concentrate on fighting the major threat , the Democrats. I fear it may be too late though partly because so many so-called conservatives who bashed Republicans, who said that the parties are the same are thinking about RINOS , chao etc. instead of thinking about stopping the Democrats.
I think many of these conservatives who bash the Republicans are really democrat operatives.
All Republican Senators voted to save our Republic, to save America, to preserve our way of life, and to save freedom itself tonight. God bless you every one of you Republican Senators. I will work the rest of my life for you Republicans.
Democrats proved that they are socialists tonight. They proved that they are the threat. Anyone that has been paying attention and didn't see this is either a liberal/Marxist himself or insane in my opinion.
Oh I do like the insinuation that because I would not vote for someone who specifically is a RINO, I will bash the entire GOP. Like I said, I’m not an all or nothing gal; I judge politicians on an individual level. Including Democrats.
You seem to be the opposite; you tell me I must believe all Democrats are socialists/marxists. I agree some are, but certainly not all of them. You tell me if I decide not to vote for a Republican because of his merit (or lack thereof), I’m bashing the GOP. Life is not black and white, and again, blind loyalty is a dangerous thing.
I disagree with your numbers, by the way. That’s my right. If it’s audacity to judge people based on their actions and vote accordingly, well, I’m proud to be audacious. The bottom line: many Republican politicians over the years have taken the liberal stance on issues they should not have. You’re only as strong as your weakest link, so this fight against the Democrats won’t be very strong if your leaders elected to serve the public are Democrats in Republican clothing, will it?
And this is hardly the biggest vote ever. This is the most threatening vote on the table right now and we’re in huge trouble if it passes, but we’ve faced worse, and we’ve certainly voted on things that were bigger in a good way.
You can try to shame me into obedience all you want, but I am an American and I am no political party’s tool. I’m a conservative and if the Republicans I’m looking at are not acting like conservatives, there is no way I will help them represent me.
Why did all Democrats vote for 2000 pages of private sector killing socialist government bureaucracies and government regulations? How is that not evil? you know you will be mandated not by me but by Democrats to buy an expensive government health Insurance policy or you will go to jail? how is voting for that not evil , not socialist?
I am no threat to you and I can't make you do anything . RINOS can't either. Democrats will make you along with all of us Americans starving slaves.
Tonight at crunch time, 100% of , all Republican, Senators voted the right way against this bill and to keep America free.
My numbers are right.You are so wrong .The GOP only had about 14% RINOS. Look at the major votes like Amnesty etc. AROUND 86% of Republicans voted the right way on these bills hence they didn't pass but many uninformed so called conservatives like you concentrated on the 14% who voted the way you didn't want to instead of praising the 86% that voted the way you and us conservatives did want to like to kill Amnesty for illegals.Anyone that agrees with me on 86% of issues is an ally that should be supported.The GOP voted 86% the Right way but many conservatives concentrated on the small percentage of RINOS. NOW Republicans are voting tonight at a rate of 100% the way conservatives want them to vote and many conservatives incredibly still are bashing the GOP while giving the evil Democrats the pass who are voting at a 100% rate the way we conservatives don't want them to vote.
So what happened, did your “many” imaginary RINOS suddenly became conservative tonight or was the GOP not as bad as some whiners made it out to be . The answer is the latter. The threat is the Democrat party not the Republican party. It matters not what I say here . My words can't destroy the democrats. And it maybe be too late for America and freedom and our way of life mostly because many so called conservatives still incredibly still keep bashing the GOP while the Democrats destroy our Republic, all because some RINO said something they don't like years ago. Well no one said life was perfect nor even fair. 86% is a darn good number in my book. If anything goes 86% the way I want that is very good. But noooooo, many like you want and demand perfection of the GOP but give evil marxists/Democrats a complete pass.Now Republicans are voting 100% the way conservatives want. How many things in life go 100% the way we want, how many organizations or people agree with us 100% of the time, only the mighty GOP.
This is the most important bill because it is the tipping point that will tip the U.S. toward socialism.
If we had George Allen and/or Norm Coleman instead of Democrat Al Franken this bill would not have passed.
You are very fun. You still seem to confuse me having a problem with certain politicians with me having a problem with the entire party and refusing to vote for any Republicans whatsoever. May I ask if you actually read anything I wrote?
Even if we go with your numbers, 14% is a lot, because that 14% is enough to reflect on your party. As I said (if you read) you are only as strong as your weakest link. I doubt many people refused to vote solely based on 14% of Republicans, they probably just didn’t vote that 14% of Republicans back into office. Which, incidentally, could explain tonight’s 100%.
Also, voting for debate and voting for the bill are two different things. I’ve already said tonight that Republicans did the right thing, and that all of them did the right thing and that it was great. I never once bashed the ones who voted the way they did tonight, although I have criticized some of them in the past and I keep an eye on them.
The threat is not one party or the other. The current threat is this bill which is a Democrat bill, but there will always be threats and they can come from either party. God is the only Entity in existence who deserves this much faith, and I’m sorry if I don’t put my faith in politicians, but I don’t, they are human beings.
You cannot argue that the Republican party is so great and say they share no blame for the current situation, because if they are that great, the Democrats never would have won that many seats. Either they are great and thus responsible for their failures or they are not responsible for their failures and it is a mere coincidence that they voted correctly tonight. This double standard of yours isn’t very generous to your own party, as it reduces them to an infantile group whose self esteem must be protected like so many of the ninnies being raised in this country right now. You want the party that stands for responsibility to not take any responsibility for the situation and I’m sorry but that’s unfair to them. They are certainly not our enemy, but it would be wrong to ignore where we are weak.
See you see the glass as 14% empty while I see it as 86% full. You really believe that 86% is not a good number? who agrees with you 86% of the time? what organization does?
If 100% of the Senators were Republicans then 86% of Senators would vote the way we wanted to limit government, to reduce private sector killing government regulations as Reagan did, to deport illegals right so all those measures would pass because all you need is 60% in the Senate and 86 is greater than 60. So 86% is a great number.
I just don't understand this phenomenon, where so many so called conservatives bash the GOP .Why do they do it? I present them with votes and percentages and they just say they still are against the GOP and then don't reply back . At least you keep replying back. It seems to me that you see no difference between the parties . Do you still believe that after tonight's vote?
I think that conservatives should not be obsessing about perfection , weeding out the heretics (the RINOS) , or getting rid of weakest links. Conservatives should instead concentrate all energy and time on stopping a Marxist Enemy, the enemy of freedom , the enemy of the American people , the Democrat party.This is about priorities. There is something Destroying America, agree or not? It's not the GOP, It's not even RINOs, it's not the Amish, it IS the Democrat party that is destroying America. So how can you say the Democrat party is not the threat destroying America when unemployment is 10%, debt is 14 trilion and growing, unfunded liabilities hundreds of trillions, and the country destroying bills about to be passed on top of all this?
I just saw a post of a guy here blaming both parties equally . I will post a link to his post. And i will give him a piece of my mind.
you said: The threat is not one party or the other. The current threat is this bill which is a Democrat bill, but there will always be threats and they can come from either party. God is the only Entity in existence who deserves this much faith, and I’m sorry if I don’t put my faith in politicians, but I don’t, they are human beings
I disagree with you , in 12 years the Republican controlled congress did not drastically move the U.S. toward socialism. During those 12 years of Republicans controlling the Congress, the Republicans did not pass any threat to America, no government health care,no stimulus,no bail out, no cap and trade,no Amnesty,no Fairness doctrine ,no Cap and trade, no Net Neutrality all country destroying bills that Democrats will eagerly pass in this year and next year, in 2 years. So how are the parties the same? Don't you see that any of these bills i just named can destroy our Economy and the U.S.?Republicans in 12 years didn't try to destroy America by passing these bills but Democrats will in 2 years.
Also Most of the government growth during the time Republicans controlled Congress came from mandatory spending already written into laws like SSI ,entitlements, etc. Most conservative didn't understand that most government programs have mandated yearly spending increases built in into laws and so they fell for the liberal media lies that blamed Republicans for spending increases whem almost all of those increases was mandatory.
And as you know it is almost impossible to get rid of government programs once they are created. This is because of many people who are dependents of government programs like SSI,Medicare , Medicaid, welfare etc., don't allow politicians to get rid of government programs like SSI,Medicare , Medicaid etc.
I'm getting tired so I can only reply party to a few points that you make at a time. But I'll reply to every point later.
I am also very tired, so I’m not going to get to reply to everything again.
Once more.
I’m not bashing the GOP as a whole. I just don’t feel that I should have to vote for someone just because he or she is a Republican if I don’t agree that he or she will be any better than a Democrat.
I see a difference between parties with ideology but not as people. They’re all politicians, so you can’t trust any of them. They’re all doing what they tell themselves is best, and they probably all truly believe it. Democrats do not as a whole see themselves as socialists, and that is precisely the problem with socialism. It’s insidious. That is why it’s so hard to fight. I would say there are Republicans with socialistic tendencies; how many of them tonight voted correctly now, but voted for the bailout a little over a year ago? Democrats are more inclined to it, but we’ve had our share.
Voting to debate something is not the same as voting for it. Several Democrats have spoken out against the bill as it stands. If they cut out a good chunk of it, I’d support it too; heck yeah I want better access to shop around insurance companies, and I might even like it if insurance companies had to take people with pre-existing conditions. Even if Americans don’t like this bill, many still want reform, and debate gives them a chance to hack bits off and add new things on and reconsider it with their own input in the process.
You’re also judging a lot of things on votes that haven’t happened yet. They may come to pass, but they haven’t yet, so how can you judge them on something they haven’t done yet?
It was the wisdom of our Founding Fathers. Bills are not supposed to be passed quickly and the Senate was designed to slow things down.
A century ago, we were somewhat wiser. Google Edison's automatic, instant vote counting invention for congress. It was declared DOA because speeding up congressional votes is NOT in general a good thing.
We've been brainwashed into activist government for several generations now. The only (valid IMO) purpose of a federal government is to have a monopoly on controlled violence to keep order in society and to provide a focus for defense from external threats.
Prior to 9/11 we as a nation had spent more on military than any other group in history. It didn't work on that day.
Since LBJ we have redistributed more money than any nation in history. Why are people still in "poverty"?
I've lived in Philippines (so I know what true poverty is) and I call BS, Barry Soetoro on all of this. The mark of an insane person is to keep trying something that has consistently failed in the past and expecting a different result. We as a nation have gone insane. And that especially includes neocons.
Wrong, on all counts. The increased taxes take effect immediately. If this is passed the only "repeal" will be the fall of the United States, much like the "Federal" Reserve, the IRS, Social "Security", Medicare, etc.
>> You can’t cherry pick something out of a 12 year rule of the Republican controlled Congress to demonetize Republicans.
It’s not cherry picking, and if you are half the authority on politics that you hold yourself out to be, you know it. Examples of (R) spend, spend, spend and enlarging government abound. And... “demonetize” Republicans? ROFL! Freudian slip? It’s spelled “demonize”.
>> You have to understand also that the Republican Congress was working against democrats,
NO THEY WEREN’T. They OWNED all branches of government for YEARS. Try again? Do you really study politics at all? The Republicans utterly squandered the years of control they enjoyed. Except for the WOT — and not even consistently on that — they were cross-the-aisle pussies who were more interested in getting along (and getting reelected and getting rich) than they were in conservative principles.
>> Still with all this against them the GOP still didn’t pass government controlled healthcare
DID TOO. Prescription health care.
>> nor Amnesty for illegals
OH COME ON! How disingenuous is THAT? While they were firmly in control (R)s led by your buttbuddy McCain tried DAMN HARD! ONLY the freaking out of a righteously indignant citizenry made them back down.
>> ALL democrats are satanically evil , marxist tyrants, wolves in sheeps’ clothing.
Finally, something on which we can agree. Unfortunately, fully half (or more) of the (R)s are also wolves in sheep’s clothing. And a few of them are downright evil.
>> I blame you all who bash Republicans as much as I blame Democrats for the passing of this bill... bla bla bla ... all of you stayed home and didn’t vote ,didn’t donate to the GOP,and bashed Republicans depressing conservative voter turnout ,... rant rant rant ... all of you are as responsible os democrats for the passing of this bill.So you are responsible for the destruction of the U.S.A...hyperventilate hyperventilate hyperventilate ... I hope you liberals and you so-called conservatives who bashed Republicans are proud of the evil you helped bring to power... &etc &etc &etc ... I think those so-called conservatives who bash the GOP are democrat/marxist operatives bitch moan blame namecall &etc
Normally this sort of undeserved presumptuous name calling and blame game would piss me off and I’d lash back at you with more of the same. But I can see that you are operating from a position of ignorance, so I’m just going to let it slide. It doesn’t sway my opinion. (Except my opinion of you, personally.)
FRegards
Look for a new plunge in the dollar and (probably) the DJI spiraling down. I’m not sure how China (our masters and owners of our debt) will react. I presume they are at best neutral or they would have kneecapped Barry when he was in Beijing to stop it.
You are so right and is bothering me a lot on here recently as I see post after post with wrong info and the sky is falling.
There is another alarming trend to try and shut off debate about a former candidate if you are not marching in lock step. That’s more like the Democrats. If we don’t bring out negatives on our candidates, how are they supposed to get corrected? I don’t blind follow anyone and will continue to ask questions.
Don’t have a candidate for 2012 because it is way to early but I do know that blind allegiance to anyone person is wrong and will come back to bite in the end. Not everyone can always be wrong and trying to shut down people with legitimate questions is not helping.
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