Posted on 11/21/2009 12:53:31 PM PST by Reeser
Democrats on Saturday clinched the votes needed to advance the Senate's version of President Obama's health care overhaul to the floor for a historic debate scheduled to begin shortly after 8 p.m..
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
FReep this poll: Obamacare is / is not a dealbreaker.
I’m sorry but I think this is all for show and CYA for the senators. Bottom line is it’s a done deal.
Even the damages involving the lousy HMO industry imposed by Hillary-care fallout survived and have been bolstered by constant legislative tinkering with that bloody system.
Frankly, this battle was lost long ago and it won't be won in some future legislature dominated by conservatives and backed by a conservative president - simply because 'conservatives' are in no wise 'of the same mind.' Conservatives can't even agree on the definition of conservatism - witness this very website...
We've lived in a socialist nation for too long, and too many 'conservatives' taking advantage of socialized medicine don't want it repealed - in fact, many want more of it unfortunately.
Look at England, where medical care tinkering is constant in their 'legislature' - you'll see the future of medical care in this nation.
For now it is over. Next battle is for 2010. We should quit wasting time trying to communicate with these Scoundrels and start the campaigns NOW! I am making anti-Castor signs to place around against Kathy Castor.Fanatic liberal of Tampa to get the ball rolling. I do not know who is running against her and do not care. Let the fight begin. They ain’t seen nothin yet.
Krauthammer On the Pelosi health-care bill:
We've always had shamelessness, but we've never had it on this galactic scale. This is [the] shamelessness of a quarter-trillion-dollar trick.
And the trick works like this — the bill has in it the assumption (which the CBO has to accept) that they will cut a quarter trillion of Medicare by cutting the fees that doctors and others receive.
We know it's not going to happen because the House is going to have a separate bill in which it pays the quarter of a trillion — with no offsets — out of the borrowed money. So it is a huge hole in the budget, but it is in a separate bill.
The separate bill ought to be called the "Pinnacle of Cynicism Act," because that's exactly what it is. However, in the bill that will be called the National Healthcare Reform Act, it [the payment to doctors of that $250 billion] is not going to appear, and that's why it [net cost of the health-care bill] ends up under a trillion — when in fact it is over a trillion. And [that is] why it ends up with no deficit whereas it will increase the deficit by about $200 billion.
So that's the black hole at the center of all this.
Secondly, if you step back and say we're, in fact, creating an entitlement of $1 trillion dollars, and even if it is offset with raises in taxes, and …cuts in other spending, that is $1 trillion that you can otherwise apply to other parts of the ... deficit, which is now going to be $9 trillion over a decade. So, in other words, you create an entitlement. You steal the possible revenue sources out of other deficit reduction, and in the end you blow a hole in the deficit that is just enormous.
You are missing the key point. The taxes and funding for this start NOW. Yeah it will take 4-5 years for you to see anything from this but we ALL START PAYING for it NOW!!!
We seriously need to up our game because once this is in - it will never be repealed.
I’m with you!
For now it is over. Next battle is for 2010.
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I agree with your sentiment and passion! But I think there are a few more steps still to take and some body punches to make on these people. It’s not a waste as long as we keep this in front of the American people and a great majority oppose it - to wit by 16 points in the recent Quinnipiac poll (no conservative poll that):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/20/AR2009112002618_pf.html
1. If it passes the Senate, then the separate House and Senate bills go to a joint conference committee where the two differing bills are merged into one bill. So our next targets are those committee members. The committee can cause it to die if they wish.
2. If it comes out of committee, then it goes back to the Senate and House for a final vote. At that point if we stop it in either House or Senate the thing is dead!
3. If however the bill is passed by both Senate and House it goes to Obama for his signature and it becomes law (the chances are absolute he will sign it)
4. Then we have the Court system to tie it up and I think there is a good chance the Supreme Court will strike it down. We must be prepared to support the most credible groups waging the legal battle. We can probably tie it up until the 2010 elections.
5. Then we have the 2010 and 2012 elections to elect enough new congressmen and a new president to overturn the legislation.
6. An uncooperative Congress will slow down and fowl up Obama’s schemes.
7. A freedom loving Congress might actually impeach Obama.
Thanks for helping bring some perspective on tonights vote. People were starting to panic while there is still a political battle to be fought.
It is done. Lets hang it and Obama around their necks and beat the crap out of em to take the house in 10.
It’s not a waste as long as we keep this in front of the American people and a great majority oppose it - to wit by 16 points in the recent Quinnipiac poll (no conservative poll that):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/20/AR2009112002618_pf.html
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By the way, if we keep this in front of people, get out the real message, and present sensible alternatives, the victories in 2010 and 2012 will be complete and devestating for the RAT communists.
This isn’t over the main vote will come in a week or two when they try to end debate and move to a final vote. That is the critical vote which will require 60 votes. At the moment far to many of us are panicking while the battle is still raging. We can still win this thing if we keep up the hard work.
And don’t forget all those “principled conservatives” who “sent a message” to the GOP in all of the recent elections.
And don’t forget all those “principled conservatives” who “sent a message” to the GOP in all of the recent elections.
Nahh! Smoke and Mirrors. This reminds me of Wrestling. The whole show is a bunch of baloney. It is and has been set up for a good while. They all knew medicare social security and the other programs are bankrupt a long time ago. The fix is in.
This could go well into 2010 before a final vote is taken. There will be several opportunities for whole process to blow up in their socialist faces.
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Yes, agreed. This and 11/2010 are our near and medium term fights and we must FIGHT tooth and nail, imho, and continue to win hearts and minds of indies. We must be clever, coherent and eloquent.
Continue to repeat to all who you interact with - ‘the Obama recession, the Obama recession’, etc., and also, when people talk about the health care bill, suggest how weird it is that we’re paying now, but it doesn’t kick in til 2012 - ‘did you know that?’ Get people indies and people you know that probably voted for bammy to start reading up on this monster.
there is still a political battle to be fought.
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A political battle - a battle for hearts and minds. This is not a sprint to the end, it is a MARATHON and we’re in it for the long haul.
If we love our country. And I think we do!
The problem is this: The killer taxes start NOW. The killer “care” starts in 4 years.
I’m sick of them all.
Liberman, Lincoln and Nelson all sold out.
Lets see if this is fillabustered on the final vote.
Liberman and group “says” they won’t vote for the bill if it has a public option, but will they support a fillabuster in the final vote? HMMMMMMMMM. All is takes is ONE.
Methinks not in my opinion. They’ll vote “yes” to allow debate (the dems have the votes to pass this if it came to a vote) but then vote “no” in the final vote....and will try to spin it as though their hands are clean (helping Dems the front end, yet looking “principled” on the back end).
WWTJD?
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