Posted on 10/19/2009 8:07:44 PM PDT by rdl6989
Archaeologists carrying out excavations prior to road-widening near Hamovil junction in northern Israel discovered a weapons cache including submachine guns and ammunition on Monday.
Four submachine guns, made in Egypt and stamped in Arabic "Port Said" and the number "17," were found inside a tire, wrapped in oiled cloth. With them were 50 submachine gun 9-millimeter bullets and a khaki shirt.
At first the archaeologists thought the guns had been used by Arab soldiers in the battles of 1948. About a year ago outposts were found in digs in the area, believed to have been used by Arab gangs operating in the Zippori area in pre-state times. However, Egypt began manufacturing the Port Said submachine gun only in 1956. The Port Said was an imitation of the Carl Gustaf M/45 Swedish submachine gun.
(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...
Ping.
Was there a reverse gear on the guns?
.
The M3 looked like crap, but it would still kill ya....
I wouldn’t call them “crude” but simple and effective. Very reliable and fun to shoot. Surprisingly accurate. Takes 36 & 50 round magazines and 72 round drums.
I think I said "crude looking." Other than that, i don't know anything about them.
In the April 2009 edition of Small Arms Review magazine, the biography of Burton "Bob" Brenner chronicles his role as a world traveling surplus military arms buyer for various firearms dealers in the United States.
On one of his ventures, he visited Israel shortly after the 1954 war and travelled to the Sinai where the Israelis had captured enormous amounts of Egyptian war material. Lined up on the side of a road were miles of collected Egyptian ordnance: Seven million rounds of British .303 cartridges; literally miles of ammunition covered with tarps. There were also thousands of FN (Fabrique Nationale) FN M49 rifles chambered in 8mm Mauser.
Buying this trove for Golden State Arms based in California, Brenner took home a package of 35,000 rifles, several thousand miscellaneous pistols, substantial lots of Carcano ammunition left over from the Italian campaign in North Africa, and the previously mentioned seven million rounds of .303 ammo.
Brenner returned in 1967 after Israel took over the West Bank and Jerusalem where they'd captured Jordanian arms depots. Because the United States had years earlier armed Jordan to prevent an attack from Syria, a tremendous cache of US-made weaponry was seized by the Israeli troops. This uncovered 4,000 pristine M1 Garands and several million rounds of USGI .30-06 ammunition. Also sold by the Israelis were several million rounds of 9mm ammo, and some 30,000 M1 carbines.
So, to answer Ha'aretz' question about "What are 50-year-old Egyptian guns doing roadside in Israel?", the answer is that they obviously hadn't been revealed to Bob Brenner in his gun buying travels to Israel or they'd already have been long gone. These weapons were captured by the Israeli Army, left by the side of the road in crates, and the Israelis never sent trucks back to get them. Time, wind, and sand covered them up like the antiquities of Egypt.
Too bad, actually. There would be lots and lots more transferable Port Said/Swedish K submachineguns in the NFA registry today had Bob Brenner come across them.
Looks pretty sweet to me, I’ll take 4 please.
The CIA and US Army Special Forces MACV-SOG operating clandestinely in Cambodia during the Vietnam conflict took a great liking to the Swedish K and Egyptian licensed clone 'Port Said' submachineguns as you pictured earlier. These weapons were 'sterile' and any capture of them by the North Vietnamese Army lent plausible deniability to their origin.
There once was an FR poster here named 'sneakypete' who had in his FR profile a scanned photograph of himself at a US Army Special Forces hilltop firebase in Cambodia in 1970 wearing a uniform with no identity tags carrying a Swedish K SMG like you posted. Maybe he'll pipe in and say something. :)
Parts kits are available as are “80%” receiver tubes
with machining templates.
NFA rules apply, etc.
so what operation were they involved in?
BUMP for later read
I would agree, those types of weapons seem conducive to long term storage if prepared properly...
When they mentioned “tire” in the article, it probably meant a “tube” that was sealed at both ends to reduce water or other corrosive seepage that would be a problem...
Why they put it by a “road side” is beyond me...
Probably thousands of little cashes like this all over the place over there...
Or when they find the buried remains of the lost Napoleonic French army that died in the Egypt wastelands ....
Pretty crude looking subgun
True, but effective and reliable.
So reliable that even an Arab can’t f*ck it up.
That’s no minor matter when discussing Arabs - who can usually manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of certain victory.
I guess I would just prefer them to stop trying to do everything they can to kill us...Just because...
Otherwise, I’m just absolutely all for returning the favor...
If God has a problem with my attitude, then I am certainly amiable to discuss it...
I certainly do not instigate the problem they have with us, nor do I wish it to continue, they need to stop, leave us alone, and I propose we do the same right back...
I’m tired of it all...
Just my opinion...
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Thanks rdl6989. Archaeology pays off again. :') I'd hoped someone had posted one of the many stories about the German finds that came to light, same kind of deal, a high speed rail line construction necessitated some hurry-up archaeology, kaboom, 7000 year old settlements, Bronze Age stuff, a Slavic burial ground...Egypt began manufacturing the Port Said submachine gun only in 1956.Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution. |
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