Posted on 10/02/2009 3:35:27 PM PDT by MissTickly
President Obama's original birth certificate was "record in accordance with state policies and procedures," but his vital records were "maintained on file."
Oct,31, 2008: “...Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures..."
July 27, 2009: "“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”
July 27, 2009, I asked this question of the Hawaiian DoH: "Is the Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, able to state they have verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has President Barack Obama's AMENDED original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."
A careful parsing of words seems necessary because one COLB can say this: "Filed by Registrar" While another can say this: "Accepted by Registrar" Despite what you read online, or see presented by anonymous people that you've never met and you don't know-Hawaii must explain what this means. It's a procedural question that I cannot get an answer to. Why?
The last I communicated to Dr. Fukino, on October 1st, I wrote her the following, and she has not responded to correct any mischaracterizations. Please take note of that:
Dr. Fukino--
Per your press release statement on July 27, 2009, are you telling us that, in part, you saw "vital records" that include some kind of a representation of a stated "filed" and threfore pending application for an amended/corrected Birth Certificate (it was on file, not on record) and evidence filed to support an amendment/correction, but that evidence was still pending approval on July 27, 2009? I am sorry for the characterizations I give in lieu of knowing the legal jargon. Please correct me if I have mischaracterized anything.
I am finally realizing I really need to understand what 'on file' and 'filed with the registrar' means compared to "accepted by registrar" and "on record." Can you help me understand or direct me to one of your staff for explanation? If you don't already know--a woman has presented her own "filed with registrar" type COLB that she asserta represents a normal, indexed-at-birth, run of the mill Hawaiian birth certificate to natural parents with all information in pristine, original condition.
Is that possible? Should a record like I just described typically say "Accepted by Registrar?"
I have requested from the AG library archive, the opinion letter that I believe sets out the procedures for filing an application for an amended birth certificate. But I have not received it yet. If the DoH is able to provide a copy--please do.
If you meant for people to understand you in July, and if I am understanding things correctly without having the necessary AG letter. Woman, I seriously underestimated you. I want people like you working for government.
I don't know what you can answer that I just asked, if anything. But, if you can correct any mischaracterizations about policy and procedure--please do.
I am giving pause to all of this. You have been very candid, I believe. I just was too blind to see that you put it all out there for anyone paying attention. You've been as fair as can be to BOTH sides of this issue from what I can discern.
Thank you. T.
*
And I brought my question from July 27, 2009 full circle:
Aloha Dr. Fukino,
Please use THIS version of my questions. So very sorry--I am struggling with the difference between the words "on file" and "on record." I am going to go with "on record." I realize I might have to resubmit at some point with the "on file" language.
If you would please answer the following questions for me per your statement on July 27, 2009:
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”
On July 27, 2009 per your issued statement, did you personally verify that the "vital records" you saw were NOT maintained on record in accordance with state policies and procedures?
On July 27, 2009 per your issued statement, did the Registrar of Vital Statistics personally see and verify that the "vital records" you saw were NOT maintained on record in accordance with state policies and procedures?
Thank you for your continued patience on this issue. If you would please answer the two questions above separately--that would be ideal. I am afraid that a blending of the answers will muddy your efforts to be forthcoming with the public. If you have already been forthcoming--that effort should be recognized and not distorted.
Sincerely, T.
*
CONCLUSIONS? Was the President's Natural Born Citizenship verified with a long form birth certificate, an application to amend his birth place and insufficient pending evidence of that amendment? On July 28th, did Congress sell us out with a Resolution that declared that President Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961?
Did Congress provide the 'evidence' to amend the President's Birth Place.
Get answers from Hawaii. If need be, get answers from Congress.
Thanks for letting me post here FR.=)
Does that expire at age 18 or 21?
The “dual citizenship” angle is a dead letter. NOTHING another country says or does can obviate American citizenship so even if he were declared a citizen of Indonesia it would not matter unless he renounced his American citizenship AS AN ADULT. No one can do it for him as a child.
Neither would having a parent as a non-citizen affect his citizenship IF he were born within the US. If “anchor” babies are citizens (and that is the current understanding unfortunately) then Barry is IF born within the US.
It all boils down to WAS he born here or Kenya? All the rest is just confused lawyering. Clearly we have not been shown any convincing evidence that he was and there are lots of circumstantial evidence that he was NOT.
I love to know that. I can’t imagine HI will comply. Heck no ones what HOSPITAL he was born in. No one wants to claim him.
Where will the Presidential Library be?
That is all well and good but NOTHING Britain or any other country can do can take away an American citizen’s citizenship. Said act is irrelevant to this issue.
It’s like extracting rear molars, isn’t it? I suspect that it will take more than just asking the right questions. (Something like a court order?) But the fact remains that these bureaucrats want to make sure that their responses are truthful, technically, though parsed to the limit. They don’t want to be culpable when it all blows up.
They already have acknowledged it. Fukino gave us the evidence in her statement. Vital Records that are on FILE—are records that are PENDING, but not accepted yet by the registrar and recorded.
We have the proof, Fukino did her job well for this nation.
Now how do we enforce our constitution? I’ll leave that to you guys-I am just here to point out the evidence in plain site. READ FUKINO’S JULY STATEMENT CAREFULLY.
But anchor babies can’t be “natural born” for Presidential purposes, because their Parents aren’t citizens?
BTW nothing in the Constitution references the definition of natural born citizenship.
Thanks, LucyT..
This is getting interesting.
Thanks, I’m going have to go back and read it.
And be sure to look at the COLB again. The information presented reflects info he is filing in ‘hopes’ it will be “Accepted by the State Registrar.”
Hopefully, the more Barry tanks, he’ll get tripped up by all the other OUTRAGES that are going on in his administration.
Such children are snuck into citizenship despite the explicit remarks to the contrary of the writers of the 14th amendment hence there appears to be no reason why they would not be considered “natural born” is they are considered citizens at all.
The issue was raised and the proposers of the amendment made it clear that such children were not to become citizens since the parents were not considered “under the jurisdiction of” the United States being interlopers.
Please absorb what I am saying. We don’t need his vital records, I believe that Fukino says it plainly if we can understand what “maintained on file” means. That’s what she said on July 27.
If “anchor” babies are citizens (and that is the current understanding unfortunately) then Barry is IF born within the US.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This isn’t about whether he is a citizen. It is about his *natural born* status. BIG difference!
That’s what I thought. Doubt we will ever see a test of this.
Here is a genetist question. Obama Sr was very dark, Frank Marshal Davis looks quite a bit lighter. The nose of Zero and Davis are nearly identical. (What type of nose did mother have?) I know a white and black can have a nearly black child or nearly white child by appearance. The more I look at Davis, I really have to think he is the sperm donor.
Oh, yes, and another thing, maybe a little off-topic, but pertinent to the Indonesian connection: What is the paper trail for Barry Soetoro’s name change to Barack Hussein Obama? (Was a legal filing of some sort required?) Where would that have taken place, if at all? Hawaii? New York? Illinois? When exactly did he last use the name Barry Soetoro? Does anyone know??
I am not convinced your assumptions are correct wrt to imprecise language. It is unlikely that a filed document would remain “pending” for four decades or more for starters. The words likely refer to the same thing being in the files is the same as “on record” etc.
I’m with you on that. He doesn’t resemble his siblings that are bi-racial.
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