Posted on 09/25/2009 9:35:32 AM PDT by PapaBear3625
...
Khalid Khawaja, a former Pakistan intelligence officer, who describes himself as a friend of Osama bin Laden, said he was aware of a German contingent and that there were a number of Swedish converts too who had arrived in Pakistan "for Jihad".
"The Europeans are there [in Waziristan]. The most dedicated people there are from Europe. They will do anything for Islam. They are not there because their father's are Muslim, but by choice," he said.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
I hope a few of our people are there with them. We haven’t been able to get anyone on the inside of these organizations for a long time. Coming up with a White Convert branch of AQ might give us a chance.
I hope you and others are right. Here’s my fear. A huge number of Muslims do not live for this world. They live for the world after death, with God. The same God most of us believe in. That is why so many of them can blow themselves up. It may hurt on Planet Earth, but the reward is in heaven. This is also why things like “women’s rights” are a joke to them. Muslims have enough faith to reject the modern world.
RFC’s are about to that same point. This world is evil. Things in this world are of Satan. Most are not yet so deep into it that they are willing to blow themselves up, but I do not see that as a big step to be made. I think it is a little step. The further one goes down the road of consistency with an ethos, the easier it is to overdo it. (For example, Look at the some of the people who read Atlas Shrugged—they go off the deep end).
Now, we as a country are headed for a major societal breakdown. It will be a depression, whether now, a few years from now, or ten years from now. Whenever it hits, life as we know it is going to go thru some pretty big upheavals. We aren’t going to be able to afford so many of the things that we have taken for granted for years. From education, to pizzas, to jet skis, whatever, these things will be hard earned. This is going to drive America back to God, back to conservatism, and will have a lot of good effects, IMHO. Fundamental Christianity will thrive. We won’t be able to afford a bunch of illegitimate children. Knocked up girls are going to have get married. Drug using new son-in-laws are going to start getting their *sses kicked by grandpas, and they are going to have to get serious, get jobs, and friggin grow up.
In other words, life socially will go back pretty much where it was in the 30’s, 40’s, and 50’s. Again, IMHO. Only way America will be able to compete with other nations who do not have a mass of deadweight to have to carry.
Anyway, this atmosphere will be ripe for an explosion in RFC, and most Muslims are pretty socially conservative. Their girls are not pushed into being sex objects. Thievery and drug use are not tolerated. Neither is adultery. Obedience to parents is demanded and punished when not forthcoming.
A lot of beliefs in common. I think is fertile ground for cross pollination.
parsy, who hopes he is wrong
You got it all wrong. Radical muslims follow the teachings of mohammed who modeled conversion by the sword. Radical Christians follow Jesus who modeled conversion by love. He didn’t tell us to cut off the hands of theives but to hang out with them, love them as individuals worthy of GOD’s love and HIS sacrifice.
If one is to go blow up innocent people he definitely is not following the teachings of Christ. The Jews at the time wanted Him to lead a military and political overthrow of thier roman oppressors and He didn’t. He freed them from the oppression of sin instead and those who didn’t understand or refused to were the ones who wanted Him hung from a tree in shame.
Radical muslims have more in common with fascists and need a reformation to be able to live peacefully in the modern world. Christians have continued to grow in tolerance of others over the decades and the religious freedom of American individuals is a great example of that tolerance.
Here’s a test for you. Watch this video and tell me what you think the reaction of a sincerely godly Muslim and a sincerely godly RFC would be to it:
I think both will have the same visceral reaction to the video and to the culture that spawned it.
parsy, who is asking your opinion
You believe in a loving Jesus like I do. Many Christians do not, or if they do it sure isn’t evident from their lives. They use Christianity as a sword of hatred, and as a way to bolster their own egos. This hatefulness is what has driven many people away from Jesus.
Watch that video I just posted and tell me how a RFC and Muslim would view it.
parsy, who says again, he hopes he is wrong
TM Ping.
Ich bin ein Jihadische!
A real Christian would be saddened because it appeals to the flesh in a big way. A muslim I don’t know probably would be disgusted for the same reason?
A radical would probably be enraged but if they lashed out then they are operating in the flesh as well.
If your religion leads you to destroy then you are decieved by satan and following corruption not holiness.
Just because someone can quote bible verses and claims Christ doesn’t mean they are HIS. You will know whose they are by the fruit they bear but be careful because the fruit they bear in a short period of time only reveals who they follow at the moment not who they follow for thier lives.
Look at Paul as an example. He was a radical Pharisee then a radical Christian but always a radical.
IMHO, they would both be disgusted. They would both see it as a corruption of God’s plan for the world. I think both would see the purveyors of this kind of stuff as evil. In short, their reactions would be about 90% the same.
Currently, the Muslim would think it appropriate to stone or lash the woman, and destroy the purveyor. The average RFC would not yet go that far. BUT, let that RFC get to the point where he blames society for permitting this, and then you start seeing a convergence.
For now, I am very happy that the Muslims do not have an equivalent to Billy Graham, or Bob the Baptist or we might be seeing that convergence.
parsy, who tries to think ahead
;)
I suppose one would try to “save her soul” and or look down on her as “going to hell” and the other would try to kill her for crimes against their religion.
Honestly, the only thing this was a test of is my perception of what others might do according to the “model” I have build in my head of who and what they are. Nothing more... Although I am pretty confident that my “model” of both is going to be fairly accurate on a consistent basis.
In your mind are Christians bad or is it fundamentalist Christians that are bad? Maybe its just the radical ones that are bad?
In your mind, does radical equate to bad? If so, why?
Are all radicals bad? political, ideological, religious, etc? or only some of them?
...Just curious.
If your going to operate on the assumption or forecast of what any man MIGHT do given a certain sequence and convergence of events, then you’re simply committing intellectual masturbation.
A persons actions are what defines them, not specifically their emotion or thoughts. Just because a person “feels” like killing does not equate to actually killing. Its the ability and willingness to NOT act upon that feeling that separates people, religions, ideologies, etc...
bump
Hard to answer. I see similarities. Take for instance abortion protesters. We all agree they have a right to protest. Abortion is wrong, and if it were right, people would still have the right to protest. Some go beyond and kill the abortion doctors. In a legal sense, they are guilty of murder and the state has no choice but to prosecute.
As citizens, we have an obligation to obey laws. But I am curious as to what is going to happen in the jury room when the defense raises a “defense of life” defense. Muslims would probably see little wrong with shooting an abortion doctor.
Christians are not in favor of murder, but down there at the radical level, we have already seen a few make the jump. Right now, I think you can count these people on the fingers of one hand. Like Eric Rudolf, or that guy in Kansas. What happens if more become willing to cross that line between “Caesar’s laws” and what they view as God’s laws?
And what happens if those people ever link up with the fundamentalist type Muslims? Both groups spring from Judaism. Both believe in the 10 Commandments. Both view society as evil. Both believe in Heaven. There’s a lot of common ground. If one Christian in ten thousand make that
jump, you’re looking at what, like 25,000 people?
parsy, who can see this becoming a possibility down the road
Here's the fundamental difference [pun intended]: In 2009, you would have to look a long time to find a Christian whacked out enough to be in favor of killing somebody for insulting the name of Jesus. In several Muslim countries (Saudi Arabia and Pakistan come to mind), it is LAW that defaming Islam has the offender liable to the death penalty. Being an apostate is also a death penalty offense in Islam.
So let's stop with the moral equivalence games, okay?
THREAD BUMP
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