Posted on 08/09/2009 6:29:20 AM PDT by GL of Sector 2814
Well maybe you see something that I don't, but hard as I try, I can't see how a belief in Bigfoot or UFOs or any of the other harmless notions people acquire during the course of their lives have any major impact on society.
I guess I have a hard time believing that people who claim to want to be left alone in their non-belief have nothing but pure motives in their endless ridicule and attempts to destroy others who have a (very legitimate) belief in, and relationship with, Jesus Christ. It's very odd to me how you never see atheists going into a Muslim school, for example, and making noises and comments and disrupting the goings-on.
I guess it comes down to live and let live and if you don't want anything to do with God, that's fine, Like I said before, He doesn't force Himself on people; He gave us free will and we exercise that free will and live with the results of it. The claim that God is forced on anyone or shoved down anyone's throat is patently absurd today. We have a completely God-rejecting, secular presidential administration, and there are no laws in this nation forcing anyone to go to church or pray.
The claim that atheists are concerned about the effects of God on society sinks like a lead balloon. God has been kicked out of this nation, and yes, we are living with the consequences of that, but the fact is, those who hate God now have what they want and should be happy.
I think "professional skeptics" such as Penn & Teller would agree that belief in Bigfoot (as such) doesn't have a major impact on society, but they still feel the need to provide information countering such nonsense. On the other hand, belief in such things as faith healing can get people killed, so some things matter more than others. To bring things back to the original topic of this thread, belief in creationism or the pseudoscience of intelligent design can have a negative impact on science education, which is arguably a major impact on society.
I guess I have a hard time believing that people who claim to want to be left alone in their non-belief have nothing but pure motives in their endless ridicule and attempts to destroy others who have a (very legitimate) belief in, and relationship with, Jesus Christ. It's very odd to me how you never see atheists going into a Muslim school, for example, and making noises and comments and disrupting the goings-on.
Which atheists are trying to "destroy" believers in Jesus Christ? As for disrupting religious schools, the only thing I can recall that comes close to that (in the US) was gay activists disrupting church services some years ago. Reference, please?
I guess it comes down to live and let live
I would assert that the vast majority of atheists feel act the same. There are those who are "in your face" about it, but the same can be said of those who believe in God.
...and if you don't want anything to do with God, that's fine, Like I said before, He doesn't force Himself on people; He gave us free will and we exercise that free will and live with the results of it. The claim that God is forced on anyone or shoved down anyone's throat is patently absurd today.
It's certainly far easier to be an open atheist these days. While there is still societal disapproval from some quarters, it's rapidly becoming a thing of the past.
We have a completely God-rejecting, secular presidential administration, and there are no laws in this nation forcing anyone to go to church or pray.
I think we can both agree that the latter is a good thing.
The claim that atheists are concerned about the effects of God on society sinks like a lead balloon. God has been kicked out of this nation, and yes, we are living with the consequences of that, but the fact is, those who hate God now have what they want and should be happy.
While it's fair to say that there are those in the atheist camp who hate God (or more accurately, the belief in God), the overwhelming majority of non-believers are simply indifferent on the subject. As for God being "kicked out" of this nation, I would point out that the USA is still one of the most religious western countries, although it's trending in a secularist direction.
They remained totally illiterate for the better part of 500 years after the fall of Rome. There were few if any formal institutions outside the Church. The eastern Romans certainly regarded them as barbarians when they sacked Constantinople on their way to Crusade.
So you were forced to convert? From what religion?
Well, I guess everyone has to make a living somehow, including Penn and Teller, and if they've found a market for their act, good for them. As far as creationism in the schools, I don't expect that in secular, godless, government-run public schools, God's version of how He created the earth and everything in it will get a warm reception. On the other hand, evolution is far, far from a proven fact, yet the theory of evolution is taught as gospel truth in the public school system. I would bring up hypocrisy, but, again, in the godless country we live in, I don't expect God to get a fair shake.
Which atheists are trying to "destroy" believers in Jesus Christ? As for disrupting religious schools, the only thing I can recall that comes close to that (in the US) was gay activists disrupting church services some years ago. Reference, please?
Reference was made to a Muslim school since, to my knowledge, Muslims haven't opened anything like the Creation Museum. The fact is, atheists have no problem going into a privately-owned operation run by people who believe in the Biblical account of creation, and attempting to force their beliefs on the people there by creating a ruckus. These same atheists wouldn't dare go into a mosque or a school run by Muslims because the Muslim "god" doesn't quite have the tolerance for unbelief that Christ does.
I would assert that the vast majority of atheists feel act the same. There are those who are "in your face" about it, but the same can be said of those who believe in God.
I guess so, although I have yet to see the reports about Christians invading and crashing an atheist convention or loudly making spectacles of themselves in the evolution section of a museum. I think the atheists are a few steps ahead of the Christians in trying to force their beliefs on others.
It's certainly far easier to be an open atheist these days. While there is still societal disapproval from some quarters, it's rapidly becoming a thing of the past.
And, based on the experiences of other godless civilizations, I really don't think that's something to jump for joy about. Quite the opposite, in fact.
I think we can both agree that the latter is a good thing.
Absolutely. God never forces anyone to pray or worship Him, but He does allow the consequences of unbelief to play out in the life of a person or in a nation.
While it's fair to say that there are those in the atheist camp who hate God (or more accurately, the belief in God), the overwhelming majority of non-believers are simply indifferent on the subject. As for God being "kicked out" of this nation, I would point out that the USA is still one of the most religious western countries, although it's trending in a secularist direction.
I disagree. We still have our religious freedom for now, but we are about to see legislation enacted, for example, that criminalizes any speech, based on Biblical truth, that condemns behavior that in this godless, secular society has become accepted, tolerated, and celebrated. And that is just one example.
We now have laws in this country which makes criminals out of those who refuse to rent property to people because of certain lifestyle choices, we have students being expelled from school because they brought a Bible to read-the list goes on and on.
This nation is almost completely secular, and, the more secular we become, the more we decay and deteriorate. We now have a "president", proudly secular and godless, who is destroying our freedoms as fast as he can, and who is about to see his precious health care legislation enacted into law that will legalize the murder of certain people in this country who are deemed old and useless. Just like every other secular nation in recent memory.
But the atheists should be joyous. God is out of America and Barack Obama is in.
Twisted it? It's the exact word, a circle, a two-dimensional object, a flat Earth. And as I said that is only one of the mentions of a flat Earth in the Bible. Disagreeing with you is not necessarily lying.
God has told us there would be a world government and a world dictator, and he told us this quite a few centuries ago.
As far as the people then were concerned, we already had a world government, the Romans.
The fact is, we now have the technology to give an identifying number to every human being on the face of the earth.
We had it back then, too. It's called a tattoo. That is if you still insist on only mundane power being used by Satan in the takeover of the world.
we now have your wonderful secular leadership that you love so much. How's that working out by the way?
On the whole, quite well. We've had a few hiccups, but then have theological forms of government.
Christians legalized slavery?
That one's just funny. The Bible merely regulated the accepted institution of slavery, never even attempted its abolition. The abolitionist movement really didn't kick off until the 1700s. Luckily the morals of the people changed from that in the Bible, so they realized slavery was an institution that could not be tolerated.
I thought that was the French and Italians.
One need not be an athiest to mock something as idiotic as this "Creation Museum".
Dinosaurs froloicking with humans. Pure idiocy.
It didn't get personal until post #16, a religious person attacking atheists without provocation. Until then it was about this visit and the larger subject of creationism.
“It is the atheist, not the Christian who attempts to impose his beliefs on others.”
I am not defending the atheists (who undoubtedly were acting like asses here), but Christians attempt to impose their beliefs on others all day long.
So is the blind acceptance of the unproven theory of evolution, but everyone is entitled to his opinion.
Where? When?
Normans and the Venetian competitors with Byzantium.
Surely you jest.
Surely you have trouble answering a simple question.
You’re serious? OK, then:
Your statement:
“It is the atheist, not the Christian who attempts to impose his beliefs on others.”
Now, keep in mind I am not defending the atheists (who are undoubtedly idiots here), only rejecting your predicate statement that “Christians [do not] attempt to impose [their’ beliefs on others.”
Christians have attempted to impose their beliefs on others on numerous occasions. Here, just using Jews:
613 CE
Third Toledan Council under King Sisebut ordered the forced conversionof Jews; as many as 90,000 were converted. Children were taken from their Jewish parents and converted.
633 CE
Council of Visigoths in Toledo passed legislation that said that thechildren of Jews had to be brought up by Christians. Further, there was to be no communication between baptized and unbaptized Jews. Jews who
remained in Spain had to be baptized.
694 CE
The Toledan Council declared all Jews slaves. Children under age seven were given to Christian slave masters to be raised as Catholics.
1201 CE
Pope Innocent II (who disliked forced conversions) pronounced in 1201 that even if torture and intimidation had been employed in receiving the sacrament, one nevertheless:
...does receive the impress of Christianity and may be forced to observe the Christian Faith as one who expressed a conditional willingness though, absolutely speaking, he was unwilling. ... [For] the grace of Baptism had been received, and they had been anointed with the sacred oil, and had participated in the body of the Lord, they might properly be forced to hold to the faith which they had accepted perforce, lest the name of the Lord be blasphemed, and lest they hold in contempt and consider vile the faith they had joined.”
1236 C.E.
France Forced Conversion/Massacre
1290 CE
Jews had to convert to Christianity or be expelled from England
1492 CE
Same thing, except Spain/Portugal
1497 CE
Jews of Portugal forcibly converted/expelled/killed tortured
1840 CE
Damascus Blood Libel - An Italian monk and his servant disappeared rom Damascus in February 1840, just weeks before Passover. A large number of Jews were charged with ritual murder and declared guilty. The Jewish children of the community were taken away and raised as Christians.
1843 C.E. Austria & Prussia
Convert or be expelled
1862 C.E.
Area under General Grant’s Jurisdiction in the United States orders all Jews to convert or be expelled from the territories
1904 C.E. Manchuria, Kiev & Volhynia
Convert or be expelled or killed
1919 C.E. Prague
Convert or die
Etc.
In short, your statement was absurd.
Are you aware of anyone who makes it their life's mission to disprove the existence of Thor, Zeus, Xenu, Krishna, or Mohammad? Have you ever known of anyone with an expressed hatred of Mohammad storming a mosque?
Neither do I. It's Jesus Christ who enrages people. Funny, that, huh?
If you were to lump the Tooth Fairy into the same pot as all supernaturalism, cult belief, astrology, homeopathy, and "crypto-insert the hot topic of the day here, there are plenty of people who make a good living debunking such nonsense. As far as "disproving God," though, that's impossible as one cannot prove a negative. The burden of proof is always on the believers. Thus far, I remain unconvinced.
Well, no, actually the burden of proof isn't on the believers. According to God, in Romans 1:20, His creation is evidence enough of His existence and man is without excuse in denying Him because of it. So God has proven His existence already in His creation; it is up to the God-deniers to disprove His existence.
It wouldn't matter what "proof" you had because this isn't really about the existence or non-existence of God- it's about the fact that God told us that He has set eternity in the hearts of men and some of those men are enraged at the thought that there is a day of accounting, there is Someone to Whom they will answer for the choices they have made. It is unfathomable to arrogant, fallen man that there could possibly be a God who would judge them.
What possible benefit can be derived from raging against God? It’s sheer vanity this rage against God. It’s useless, it won’t achieve a thing. Furthermore it seems atheists must always become a horde to stand against God. Apparently they assume that if they become a big enough mob they can withstand God’s Holy judgment. They can put God away by the sheer size and force behind them. How can people be so foolish as to believe such a thing?
That's what this is really all about. Simple rebellion against God that is as old as recorded time.
Of course, you mention that fully 2000 of 2500 biblical prophecies have been fulfilled, so maybe you'll be the one to convince me.
Here are a few to get you started:
It is a little expensive (about $30 including the IMAX film, which I highly recommend) but it is well worth it.
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