JAMES TARANTO: It's certifiable: the last word on Obama's place of birth

The Wall Street Journal ^ | July 30, 2009 | JAMES TARANTO

[curiosity]

Several readers have written over the past few days taking us to task for dismissing so-called birthers as lunatics without bothering to refute their claims. We reluctantly concede their point. The birthers have managed to sow confusion in the minds of some who are not lunatics, and for the latter group’s benefit it is worth clarifying matters.

[Star Traveler]

Now..., if you’re ready to talk about this stuff without a bunch of calling names and stuff..., I can do that too... :-)

But, you know how it always ends up, always devolving into a bunch of personal accusations, which is what brings in the Moderator into this... as you well know...

So, I would think by now you would understand that you’re not going to change my mind on the issue and I know I’m not going to change your mind on the issue and so — it could be a rational posting to each other, instead of the way it always ends up...

Perhaps that’s too much to ask of anyone in this issue (as it does seem that way)... so I’m pointing that out now.. since the moderator has already said to not take this “personal” and to keep it away from that...

Thus, here’s the time to make it that way...

But, I’m not saying you have to talk or post to me if you don’t want to, but if you do, then let’s keep it on the subject at hand, and not get personal, or else the moderator is going to be back in here again. But, it shouldn’t take the moderator saying that, as everyone should be not taking it “personal” anyway...

[SoConPubbie]

Do you contend that if (remember, I said IF) the certificate shows that he was born to two American citizens in a US state, and IF the State of Hawaii confirms that fact, that you are entitled after that to obtain legally protected information for the sole purpose of procuring his humiliation?

At this point, I would want to see an actual unaltered photograph of the Birth-Certificate so that it can be analyzed to prove it is not fake.

Sorry, but there is too much noise out there, from the testimony of his Grandmother, and others, that he was born elsewhere.

He needs to clear this up, otherwise, it will dog him and the rest of us until the end of his days.

There is no reason, none, to withhold this information.

There is no way any information on the Birth-Certificate is so embarrasing that is rises above the level of necessity of removing the doubt that now exists in many US Citizen's minds that he is unqualified to be President.

[rxsid]

"Are you locked in an oil drum shouting at yourself?"

Apparently your in the same oil drum. "His sperm donor was a British citizen, thus under the constitution, he is not “natural born”"

Precisely my point.

[bobby.223]

oh but he already has shown us the BC....oops, that was a forgery. our fellow FReepers who are slamming us on going after this just seem to forget all about that little thing don’t they?

[Eagle Eye]

Then you'd continue to claim he can't be a natural born citizen because his father wasn't a citizen.

And that would be in line with what the authors of the 14th would have said!

[MHGinTN]

With clear evidence that you’re a liar, I’m sure not likely to change my perspective on you.

[SoConPubbie]

Well, from Obama’s perspective, why should he? I mean, if he was to show it, you wouldn’t vote for him. So, it makes no difference in terms of votes for him to do it... :-)

And why would I care about his opinion? or his perspective?

First of all, he works for me, John Q Public Citizen, not the other way around.

Secondly, if he doesn't, the issue never goes away and keeps nibbling away from his positive #s as more and more people ask themselves, why won't he simply show the long-form of his Birth-Certificate?

The vast majority of people in this country KNOW there is no reason for anyone not to show their Birth-Certificate.

There is NOTHING on a B.C. that could be considered embarrassing enough to keep an honest person from releasing his/her B.C.

[Las Vegas Ron]

See post #229

[MHGinTN]

See post #221 above.

[Star Traveler]

Now, I’m not getting back specifically on what you just said, but I will in a bit (doing a bit of other posting first)... but I wanted to say that since the moderator got in this thread and said to *not get personal* — I think it’s about time to knock all that stuff off, too. It goes on over and over again, all the time.

And I know how to kick it right back as quick as anyone else, too... but there’s no use to all that.

It’s about time that everyone recognizes that most likely someone else’s opinion is not going to change and if one posts to another then it doesn’t have to be on the basis of troll or you support Obama and stuff like that. Believe me, I wouldn’t ever vote for the guy and sure didn’t. But, all these kinds of comments just serve to get the conversation in these posts spiraling downhill fast.

I’ve got my opinions and they’re based on *getting something done in real life* (which has been my emphasis from the beginning) rather than saying that someone is getting away with something that they don’t think should be done.

The bottom line is that you’re not going to change my opinion (most likely) and I’m not going to change yours either, but we should be able to talk about it rationally, and realize that you won’t like my ideas and I won’t like yours, but still realize that neither one of us voted for Obama...

Anyway, that’s my part, since the mods are saying to not get personal here... :-)

[SoConPubbie]

I guess it's OK to spend a small fortune on lawyers who help hide Obama's past documents. If he's an American citizen what's the problem? It's OK to believe Obama who lies everyday to you. The media lies to you everyday about the issue by not reporting this accurately, but I'm sure that's OK with you too.

Judging from your comment, I believe you think I Don't want him to release his Birth-Certificate, quite the opposite.

He not only needs to release his B.C., but all the other documents he has had suppressed.

[Star Traveler]

Whatever was in #229, you’ll have to let me know on FReepmail because I don’t know what was in there...

[SoConPubbie]

Pure BS. Conspiracy theorists always move the goal post once they get refuted or whatever demands they're currently harping on are met.

I promise you if that was even done, WorldNetDaily would find some reason to keep the crazy train a-rollin'.

This has been the goal-post all along.

Simply show the Birth-Certificate and the problem goes away, IF he has nothing to hide.

[Las Vegas Ron]

Make that #247

[Star Traveler]

Well, does that mean that we’re going to talk now, even if you don’t agree with me.. and I don’t with you... :-)

[SoConPubbie]

No it won't. You'll just say the long form he shows is a fake, and you'll double down on the argument that he can't be a natural born citizen because is father wasn't a citizen.

Nope, all I ask is that he allows graphic forensic experts to verify the validity of the Birth-Certificate and if it shows he meets the requirements, I'll shut-up about his meeting the requirements to be a U.S. President.

B.T.W., that's a great skill-set you have there being able to read people's mind and tell the future. You should be in the circus.

[SoConPubbie]

For all I know they are waiting for the next election cycle hoping that this BC thing gets legs, then they'll trot out the formal and certified documents in the weeks before the election. The MSM will crow about what a bunch of dummies all those conservatives are. You get the idea.

I get the idea, but it's pretty weak!

The spineless GOP has already shown their usual weakness and have protected themselves from any blow-back.

As for the press, they loss their credibility more and more every week with their one-sided support for everything socialist.

Not sure over time how much they are going to be able to move anyone opinion.

[Star Traveler]

And also, for you, are you going to be able to talk and discuss things here, knowing that I’m not going to agree with you and you’re not going to agree with me? That’s not going to be impossible, is it?

[zeestephen]

Star,

I agree with some of what you say, certainly the state laws to require birth certificates.

However, according to most anti-Birthers, Obama’s “Short Form” is his birth certificate, so that gets me no closer to a resolution on his “Long Form.”

Also, I have followed closely the efforts of several Congressmen and several state legislators to create the laws you favor.

As expected, they were completely ignored at first, then they were mocked and ridiculed and attacked.

Thanks to our corrupted press, this is not a fair fight, Star Traveler.

The fact that success seems like an unreachable goal, at the moment, is to be expected.

I'm also very cheered by events in the last few days.

Nationally known "Conservatives" like Rich Lowry and Taranto have felt compelled to address the issue.

Yet, after reading their essays, I realized I knew more about the issues than they did, and I recognized that their essays were filled with disgraceful factual errors.

I have no idea where or how this thing will end.

But I will keep pecking away at Obama and his MSM lobbyists until I'm satisfied I have the answers.

[Cyropaedia]

In that particular statement she doesn't ever say what kind of document in the "vital records" show that he was born in Hawaii. Was it actually a certified Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth that was issued to his family by the State of Hawaii back in 1961?

That's the way you have to ask the question of Dr. Fukino.

There are a bunch of documents and papers that fall under the category of "vital records". Any first year law student could take her words apart in a deposition.