Posted on 06/22/2009 5:33:32 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Do you believe in God? Really? And you're willing to admit it in public?
Oops. Sorry, for a moment I slipped back into the arrogant Atheism of my youth.
Before my parents had children, they decided to raise their kids in a secular home. We had gifts at Christmas time and chocolate covered matzoh during Passover, but there was no religion and certainly no God.
When I was in grade school, God was just a kind of nondescript character who popped up in Little House on the Prairie books from time to time. He seemed like a decent enough fellow, but was more or less a bit player who didn't have much to say.
After my grandfather died when I was seven, his Baptist minister lifted me up in his arms and told me, "It's all right, Grandpa's with God now." At that moment, I could feel my dress was hiked up in the back and all I could think about was pulling it back down. But later, I asked around and discovered that God was our Heavenly father, whatever that was supposed to mean.
I figured, who better to ask about my Heavenly father than my earthly father, but when I did he laughed.
He wasn't amused in a "kids say the darnedest things" kind of way. He was laughing derisively at the idea that my mother's family believed in God. And thus began my introduction to Atheism.
There are people who call themselves atheist who are simply nonbelievers, and then there are the big "A" Atheists for whom Atheism is almost a religion. This quasi-religious doctrine isn't neutral on the existence of other religions; rather, Atheism is a virulently anti-theistic creed characterized by sneering contempt for religion and a profoundly dogmatic bigotry toward people of faith.
Want to know how Atheists see the rest of us?
I grew up learning from my father that Atheism is rational, and therefore, religious belief is irrational; Atheism is defined by logic, religious faith by fantasy; and science is real while religion is make believe. Faith, I was taught, requires a willful stifling of reason.
The Torah, the Gospels, the Qur'an? All woefully inaccurate, laughably inconsistent fictions used to encourage belief in an illusion for the purpose of social control.
My curiosity in religion surfaced again in seventh grade when several of my friends were planning Bat Mitzvahs. Surely my friends weren't ignorant enough to actually believe in God, were they? The answer was no. For most of these Reform Jews, this celebration marked the official end to the tedium of Hebrew school. Most of their families were Ethical Culturists with a recreational interest in preserving their Jewish cultural identity. In other words, they too were Atheists.
By the time I reached high school, having had little contact with religion, I was convinced that people of faith were credulous and unenlightened. They gravitated toward soothing tales of God and afterlife to help them deal with their own mortality. At best, I considered belief in God an anachronism, a quaint vestige of days gone by, on par with superstitions about wicked thoughts causing birth defects.
At my extremely liberal college, I was exposed to even more militant Atheism. It was there that I learned the mere whiff of religiosity is worthy of denigration. Many of the people I met approached religion with something between disdain and loathing, and considered all religious belief a form of fanaticism. Christians in particular were characterized as knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing fundies (and that was in polite company.)
Fortunately my mother taught me enough manners that I kept my bias to myself.
In this new environment, my Atheism was more than evidence of good reasoning, it was a socially desirable badge of intellectual superiority. Make no mistake: Atheists think they're smarter than you. Atheism isn't simple skepticism. It is a certainty that believers are wrong, and by extension, intellectually inferior. Religion, especially Judeo-Christian religion, is nothing more than a crutch for dupes.
But Atheists aren't content to leave religion as a mere object of ridicule. They want it cleansed from public life. And enlightened as they are, they've come up with quite the pretense for justifying the righteousness of their bigotry: they are defending the vision of our Founding Fathers from a dominionist conspiracy to establish Christianity as the state religion.
You see, for liberal Atheists, the only thing worse than religion is the Religious Right, a term they use to encompass all Christian conservatives. And what better way to siphon fuel from the Religious Right than to convince Americans that the government is perpetually on the verge of becoming a theocracy?
And so, they accuse local governments of trampling the Constitution in the name of God and they find subliminal Christian iconography in political ads. They wring new meanings from Thomas Jefferson's notion of separation between church and state, and condemn our country's motto and the status of Christmas as a national holiday. But above all, Atheists stoke fear among religious and nonreligious alike that conservatives view government as a tool to force religion down your throat.
Pope-slandering buffoon Bill Maher, something of a patron saint among Atheists, has called religion "the ultimate hustle." Last fall, Maher's fellow liberal Chris Matthews, a self-described Catholic, roundly criticized Alaska Governor Sarah Palin for talking about prayer in a "secular environment" and complained that she made the Republican Party look more like a church tent than a big tent. In March, Matthews complained, "Why does everything sound like the '700 Club' with this Party now?" Such examples of anti-religious bias can be found every day on cable news, network television, and in the pages of The New York Times and The Washington Post.
As my politics strayed right of center after college, I realized I wanted no part of that Maher/Matthews worldview based in elitism and the ridicule of others. I made the transition from Atheist to atheist to agnostic, and have since discovered why it is often said that religion is experiential.
There was a time when I would have preferred any manner of torture to admitting the possibility of a higher power. These days, I'm proud to say I lost my faith in the Atheist creed.
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Jenn Q. Public writes about news, politics, and the seedy underbelly of liberalism at JennQPublic.com.
See our discussion beginning at:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2201099/posts?page=149#143
But, the Hindu Creationism page seems to have toned down the overt Christian bashing.
There were at least two other posters on FR at that time, touting Hinduism apparently because it’s creation account is vague enough to drive a Darwin through it.
Your faith is weak if you don’t abandon it, metmom.
It’s the DC soundbite of the week.
And when they are humbled, as life has a tendency to do, to whom or where do they go?
And I am not offended. I usually stay away from religion threads, you might have observed that. Arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin doesn't amuse me.
But I do think highly of my fellow FReepers. When it is obvious to me that they are not getting some political angle on the "look what screwy thing Obama did today" threads, I call them out on it. Why shouldn't I do the same when religious FReepers are discussing atheism without a reasonable understanding of what it is?
I do a lot of reading over at the DUmmies board. Mostly it is to entertain myself, either through seeing their folly, or by goading them on (through my 'evil' alter ego!) to even grander heights of moonbattery. But I also learn a lot about how the other side thinks, at least the less rabid of the bunch that bother to post over there.
I would hope that my fellow FReepers would consider my opinion as that of a well-meaning friend, when I tell them that their favorite myths about atheism are just baloney.
That depends...are we talking about Christianity as it is practiced today, where Christians leave others of different faiths alone in peace? Or are we talking about the Christianity that was practiced in Europe between three and five hundred years ago, when people did unspeakable things to their fellow man over the 'crime' of heresy. In that case, I'd rather that everyone be Jewish, they don't do dirt to non-Jews.
But atheists don't seem to do these things and you are quite correct in that I don't understand why.
Here's a tip: Only the ones who are willing to make fools of themselves over these things are the ones you'll hear about. They're the "Perez Hiltons" of atheism.
There is one big difference between a former atheist who converted to a religion (especially an evangelical one) and a former believer who figured his way to atheism.
The now-atheist doesn't believe that there is some invisible figure giving him 'points' for trying to convert people over. Yes, there are the truly vocal ones, but you can ignore them if you choose, if they are authors. If they are Michael Newdows trying to make asses of themselves in the courts, well, they would have found some other way to do it anyway.
We just forget just “who” is God and “who” is man. Who are we to tell God what salvation is? Who are we to tell God, if I do this and believe this, you will save me because that is what I believe.
If we get the hierarchy correct, things fall into place. God - Jesus - man. Not man - god - Jesus.
You have good questions we have probably all felt one time or another —— Why this way?
Reading the Old Testament is so interesting and scary at the same time. We see God loved his people the Jews. He did everything for them but time after time after time they turned and disobeyed. He sent them off for punishment but then would see their torment and forgive them again and again. He loved them but they would not love and obey His commands.
When Jesus came bringing in the new law of salvation, they refused to believe in Jesus expecting a man of power and royalty to be their Savior - not a mere carpenter. They even tried to hold to the old laws and not accept the new law of grace. They tried to trap him, to kill him because they were stubborn, and would not believe.
But God then opened his salvation to the Gentiles and all. Whoever believes in Jesus and follows God's instructions for salvation will be saved and will be His people.
All through the Bible you see God threngthening them with dire consequences to warn them. Yet, if they changed their ways and followed God's way, those consequences never came to pass. The reason? We have a jealous God. He is to be feared. Full of love, but also He will not stand for our turning to man made idols to worship them instead of Him.
I ask why were they so stupid and stubborn. You see this in Kings in the Old Testament - each King was determined worthy or not by what they did about idols in their kingdom. If they did not tear them down - it was noted.
The devil? The unity of God or God-Jesus-The Holy Spirit is not at all challenged by Satan. Satan has power in this world because God allows him that power.
Yet, in the end after whatever man's time will be, the devil will fail. When Jesus returns, all man will see Him at one time, and God will call His own to be with Him.
No matter what Satan does to those belonging to God, torture, beheading, terror - whatever - Satan does not win because even if we die at the hands of Satan, if we do not reject God, we will have eternal life with God. Satan loses in the end and God's kingdom in heaven will be our home.
So, God does not promise an easy life free of pain, sorrow, fear - but He promises nothing can take you from Him as long as you do not turn from Him.
You might note that most of the apostles ended their lives in a horrible manner - they too suffered as Christ did, yet - they did not lose because they have eternity with God.
One other thing I have noticed. Aren't we fortunate to have a God that is served by showing love rather than a god who is honored by torture, terror, cruelty, abuse. Just think how different our lives would be if God demanded torture on others to follow Him. No, we have a God that created this world filled with touches of delicate beauty all around us in what He made, he teaches love thy neighbor as thyself - not kill thy neighbor. We are told to be peaceful, show kindness and love to honor Jesus. We are told to live as Jesus did.
Thank you God that you are a God honored by love.
That depends...are we talking about Christianity as it is practiced today, where Christians leave others of different faiths alone in peace? Or are we talking about the Christianity that was practiced in Europe between three and five hundred years ago, when people did unspeakable things to their fellow man over the 'crime' of heresy.
No, it doesn't depend. Those who did those despicable things in the name of Christianity weren't real Christians. A Christian is a *little Christ*. Those horrors go completely contrary to the teachings of Christ, so no, those who practiced them were not Christians.
Just like your example of atheists and the "Perez Hiltons" of atheism, so with the atrocities perpetrated in the name of Christianity. People will use anything as an excuse to justify their behavior. If religion works, they'll use that. If something else works, they'll use that.
It doesn't mean the Christianity is to blame.
Must be some good stuff they’re smoking to rationalize that one.
Agreed, it means that the interpretation of that Christianity is to blame.
I prefer the milder versions of today, thank you. Although I still have bad memories of nuns with rulers...
Well actually, the author of the article was an atheist.
I think she knows better than most.
And why would you think that any FReeper doesn’t have a reasonable understanding. That we don’t have family nor friends? Some of us see this issue from the POV of having one on one debate with an atheist. Including mysefl.
Wow! A Hindu/atheist. What are the odds of that?
Or is it that a troll has come to us?
Probably a troll sent to divert us from watching Obama.
But, gave us all a chance to think, to talk about our faith. How fun.
I attended a private, Baptist school for several years in my childhood. No rulers for them; they rapped you on the knuckles with a Husky pencil, lol.
As fundamentalist as my beliefs might seem today, I still have to wrestle with an aversion to hardline Baptist beliefs as a result of that experience. No problem with Baptists themselves, mind you, plenty of extended family members who are one variety of Baptist or another, but the denomination itself is another matter. There’s only so much benefit to telling a ten year old he’s going to hell, repeatedly. My sin was having attended a Lutheran church, nice old place, historic, going back to colonial times. Rev. Neuhaus was considered a family friend. But, hellbound I was, and was reminded of that during daily Bible study.
http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/english/pages/heritage/philaret1965.html
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union#5.
“But to say that they wiped out Christianity, is a stretch. The Orthodox Church still exists, and has large congregations in Russia.”
Straw man...no one made this point except you.
True!
***Over on the religion forum, I get the same self righteousness from people because I’m Catholic. It’s the “you haven’t read scripture like I have” tone. No matter how many references one posts, they are better.
Catholics are intellectually inferior even when one shows not to be. We are hinted to be, stupid, idol worshipers, sheep etc.***
People are often very small minded; in other words, they adopt a view that is easy to define, or at least to say, and revert back to primitive killer ape behaviours - it’s OUR clan, OUR land, OUR way of doing things and all else is bad. The sectarian postings that we see actually kind of overcome some of that as varying opposing forces form a truce as the iconoclasts band together against the Christians. It was no different from the Byzantine iconoclasts in the 700’s to the Reformation iconoclasts in the latter half of the second millennium.
***Communism and Atheism go hand in hand.
No matter how inconvenient it is for you to realise that this is not the case, the truth is that both are unrelated aspects, with vastly differing philosophical positions. ***
Nonetheless, the statement is that they go hand in hand. It very often is true; communists typically abandon any religious belief that they may have had and become a-theist.
***Moral judgment is not the monopoly of the believers alone***
Interesting statement. Upon what, then, does an atheist form morality?
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