Posted on 06/14/2009 3:43:56 PM PDT by SilvieWaldorfMD
As a Canadian living in the United States for the past 17 years, I am frequently asked by Americans and Canadians alike to declare one health care system as the better one.
Often I'll avoid answering, regardless of the questioner's nationality. To choose one or the other system usually translates into a heated discussion of each one's merits, pitfalls, and an intense recitation of commonly cited statistical comparisons of the two systems.
Because if the only way we compared the two systems was with statistics, there is a clear victor. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to dispute the fact that Canada spends less money on health care to get better outcomes.
Yet, the debate rages on. Indeed, it has reached a fever pitch since President Barack Obama took office, with Americans either dreading or hoping for the dawn of a single-payer health care system. Opponents of such a system cite Canada as the best example of what not to do, while proponents laud that very same Canadian system as the answer to all of America's health care problems. Frankly, both sides often get things wrong when trotting out Canada to further their respective arguments.
As America comes to grips with the reality that changes are desperately needed within its health care infrastructure, it might prove useful to first debunk some myths about the Canadian system.
Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.
In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall, Canada's taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However, Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher education), so the end result is a wash.
(Excerpt) Read more at denverpost.com ...
Health care revenue collection costs went up with Single Payer since 100% of that cost element was piled on top of normal tax collection practices.
As a rule the higher yur tax rate the more stuff has to go to court and the more cops you need. Logically those added cost should be counted with associated health care costs.
Yes, it should Vlad. My bad.
ADMIN — COULD YOU PLEASE ADD ‘BARF ALERT’ TO THIS THREAD’S TITLE. PLEASE? THANK YOU!!
This person lies! I’ve spoke with Canadian friends about the difference in taxes and wait times and I have never been told that their taxes are equal nor has a single one ever told me that if they had something life threatening would they hang around and wait. A lady I know who is Canadian has a really bad knee that she injured in High school. They told her she qualifed for one except for one thing, she is not 90yo yet and once she is 90 she can have the knee replacement! Since she is in her 40’s she has 50 more years of pain to go through. Last I spoke to her she was planning to try to cross the border for it ASAP.
Then there's Canadian pharmaceutical research costs ~ last time I looked they pour a lot of money into curing rust in wheat but little else. Their leaching off of American research must be worth at least half as much as they spend on medical care.
Regarding Canadians having better health, may I suggest that if you compare the average health of the average white woman in the US with that of the average white woman in Canada, the American is better off because she doesn't have to travel as far to get acces to specialists.
“There are waiting periods because of lack of practitioners, and there is a lack of practitioners precisely because the government has removed the free market from health care decisions and doctor compensation.”
And, something that hasn’t been addressed much vis-a-vis the comparison between the two systems — The US has more than 10 times the population of Canada and the demands will be exponentially more for health care than in Canada.
Being an American, I won’t speak for Canada’s or Britain’s governmental efficiency, but as for us, aside from the military, our government can NOT provide any deliverable in an expeditious manner even approaching that of the private sector. Every large bureaucracy will inevitably be bloated with bureaucrats who attain their positions for reasons of politics rather than a genuine interest in improving medical care. Will it be only a short amount of time before care providers are staffed based on those same (political, not medical) standards? I’d say “yes.”
In America, to be sure the health care industry is one that certainly needs fixes, but the proper path is NOT nationalization. Tort reform and tax incentives would be a good start.
Those who support the Canadian or British models have to ask themselves the following question (among many others): “Am I OK with my elderly or cancer-stricken loved ones being denied health care due to rationing?”
“Have you tried buying private insurance out on the open market, without the benefits of buying through an employer or being “needy” enough to fall under government plans?”
yes, its really pretty easy to get. Get a basic plan for what some people spend on booze every month.
“Social Security here is in trouble largely because the Federals played accounting games with the so-called “trust fund,””
Its in trouble for that but also because Americans live MUCH longer now than they did when it was implemented. With the baby boomers we’ll have a disproportionate number of people on SS with a much lower number of people paying in.
I can retire whenever I want to. I don’t need the govt to dictate that. I pay zero state income tax.
And many of Canada’s taxes are incurred on the purchase of items like cars.
“Our health care system would be much healthier and cheaper if it wasn’t burdened by 15 million illegals who pay for nothing.”
I think its more like 20 million but maybe some have self deported.
“There are waiting periods because of lack of practitioners, and there is a lack of practitioners precisely because the government has removed the free market from health care decisions and doctor compensation.”
And, something that hasn’t been addressed much vis-a-vis the comparison between the two systems — The US has more than 10 times the population of Canada and the demands will be exponentially more for health care than in Canada.
Being an American, I won’t speak for Canada’s or Britain’s governmental efficiency, but as for us, aside from the military, our government can NOT provide any deliverable in an expeditious manner even approaching that of the private sector. Every large bureaucracy will inevitably be bloated with bureaucrats who attain their positions for reasons of politics rather than a genuine interest in improving medical care. Will it be only a short amount of time before care providers are staffed based on those same (political, not medical) standards? I’d say “yes.”
In America, to be sure, the health care industry is one that certainly needs fixes, but the proper path is NOT nationalization. Tort reform and tax incentives would be a good start.
Those who support the Canadian or British models have to ask themselves the following question (among many others): “Am I OK with my elderly or cancer-stricken loved ones being denied health care due to rationing?”
That's if you're young and in relatively good health.
Older, and any health problems, and the monthly cost goes up dramatically. Of course, it doesn't help that part of that cost is to pay for all the illegals' free health care. *growls*
I’m no expert rab, but I suspect the whole thing is a house of cards.
Meanwhile, I still hobble around.
Have a good night.
Don' cha' love Doublespeak. Slightly higher taxes, but we get tax credits! Duh!
In a lot of ways, canada is better, but I suspect that it is only because you guys don’t have millions of inner city ghetto blacks like we in the US do.
Strip out the inner city blacks, and the US crime rate is shockingly low, prosperity high, health care and govt. schools (that’s right, I said govt. schools) are pretty good.
It’s not the illegals destroying america, it is the citizen black ghetto culture.
The proper path towards fixing health care involves shifting towards portable HDHPs and portable Health Savings Accounts [consolidate the other tax-advantaged medical accounts into the HSAs] with simplified billing codes. Oh, and instead of taxing health care premiums, just allow individuals and households who buy health insurance to deduct in full the cost of the plan and claim credits for the Medicare and FICA taxes paid on the amount.
Well, remember, when I think “Canada” I think “Alberta.” So my comparisons might be...skewed a bit. ;-)
G’night!
Private medical facilities are technically illegal under Canadian law, and yet the health care system is so dysfunctional that some provincial government actually contract with those facilities for non-emergency care.
“The proper path towards fixing health care involves shifting towards portable HDHPs and portable Health Savings Accounts”
Agreed as well. And BTW, sorry about the double-post everyone.
No, the illegals are messed up too. Just recently, a friend (legal immigrant) had his car totaled in a hit-and-run caused by...illegals.
[Thankfully the police later caught them.]
But your point is valid, otherwise. As government tried to provide more and more “services” it distorted the system terribly.
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