Posted on 06/07/2009 2:56:42 PM PDT by lewisglad
News of Dr. George Tiller's death was only hours old last week when bloggers began asking the question: What kind of church accepts a doctor who performs abortions into its membership?
"I wonder what kind, if any, preaching against sin this church did since Tiller felt welcomed there," opined Blue Collar Todd, who declares on his blog that "liberalism, or sometimes called progressivism, is a false religion that stands in total antithesis to biblical Christianity."
Todd has already made up his mind, and so have others who called or e-mailed me this week to criticize a column I wrote describing the desperate circumstances that brought people to Wichita to obtain late-term abortions.
But I'll take a swing at the pitch anyway.
What kind of church would embrace George Tiller? A church that believes the creator endowed human beings with both conscience and intelligence, to enable us to wrestle with the complicated questions. A church that recognizes that one's relationship with that creator can't be dictated by a central authority, or proscribed by a narrow list of rules.
Tiller's church, Reformation Lutheran in Wichita, Kan., is one that trusts its members with the freedom to decide on matters of conscience. It holds that a choice made for good reasons and in good faith does not separate a human being from God.
Some call this "relativism," and blame it for a decline in morals and corruption of society.
I call it freedom. And, as with the right of a woman to decide on what terms to bring a child into the world, we should be vigilant against anyone or anything that would take it away.
(Excerpt) Read more at voices.kansascity.com ...
The same kind that accepts a BTK Rader.
Perhaps a more pertinent question might be: What kind of church embraces and admires Tiller’s murderer ??
Lutheran, ELCA. The medical insurance package for ELCA ministers/wives includes coverage for abortions.
Why should we believe people who made America's most notorious late term abortionist their usher?
Isn't it more likely they did the shooting themselves and ID'd Roeder as a patsy?
Be good to wait for the trial or we might start thinking you played a part in this.
What a crock of blather this man writes.
There is no biblical freedom to be immoral. Immoral actions remain immoral actions, and no one gets a prize for choosing a murderer’s path.
“Chapter 1
1 The worde of the lorde came vn to the prophete Ionas ye sonne of Amithai sayenge:
2 ryse and gett the to Niniue that greate citie and preach vn to the how that theyr wekednesse is come vpp before me.
3 And Ionas made hi ready to fle to Tharsis fro the presens of ye lorde and gatt hym downe to Ioppe and founde there a sheppe ready to goo to Tharsis and payed his fare and wet aborde to goo with them to Tharsis fro the presens of the lorde.
4 But ye lorde hurled a greate winde in to ye se so that there was a myghtie tepest in the se: in so moch yt the shepp was lyke to goo in peces.
5 And the mariners were afrayed and cried euery man vn to his god and cast out ye goodes yt were in ye sheppe in to ye se to lighten it of the. But Ionas gatt him vnder the hatches and layed him downe and slombrede.
6 And ye master of the sheppe came to him and sayd vn to hi why slomberest thou? vpp and call vn to thy god that God maye thinke on vs that we perish not.
7 And they sayde one to a nother come and lett vs cast lottes to know for whose cause we are thus troublede. And they cast lottes. And ye lott fell vppon Ionas.
8 The they said vnto hi tel vs for whose cause we are thus trowbled: what is thine occupacio whence comest thou how is thy cotre called and of what nacion art thou?
9 And he answered the I am an Ebrue: and the lord God of heuen which made both se and drie land I feare.
10 Then were the men exceadingly afrayd and sayd vn to him why diddest thou so? For they knew that he was fled from the presens of the lorde because he had told them.
11 Then they sayd vn to hym what shall we doo vnto the that the se maye cease fro trowblinge vs? For the se wrought and was trowblous.
12 And he answered them take me and cast me in to the se and so shall it lett you be in reste: for I wotte it is for my sake that this greate tempest is come vppon you.
13 Neuerthelesse the men assayed wyth rowenge to bringe the sheppe to lande: but it wold not be because the se so wrought and was so trowblous agenst them.
14 Wherefore they cried vn to the lorde and sayd: O lorde latt vs not perih for this mans deeth nether laye innocet bloud vn to oure charge: for thou lorde even as thy pleasure was so thou hast done.
15 And the they toke Ionas and cast hi in to ye se and the se lefte ragynge.
16 And ye men feared the lorde excedingly: and sacrificed sacrififice vn to the lorde: and vowed vowes.
17 Bvt ye lorde prepared a greate fyshe to swalow vp Ionas. And so was Ionas in ye bowels of ye fish .iij. dayes and .iij. nightes.
Chapter 2
1 And Ionas prayed vnto ye lord his god out of ye bowels of the fish.
2 And he sayde: in my tribulacion I called vn to the lorde and he answered me: out of the bely of hell I cried ad thou herdest my voyce.
3 For thou hadest cast me downe depe in the middes of the se: and the floud copased me aboute: and all thy waues and rowles of water wet ouer me:
4 and I thought yt I had bene cast awaye out of thy sight. But I will yet agayne loke towarde thy holy temple.
5 The water copased me eue vn to the very soule of me: the depe laye aboute me: ad the wedes were wrappte aboude myne heed.
6 And I wet downe vn to the botome of the hylles and was barred in with erth on euery syde for euer. And yet thou lorde my God broughtest vp my life agayne out of corrupcion.
7 When my soule faynted in me I thought on the lorde: and my prayer came in vn to the euen in to thy holy temple.
8 They yt obserue vayne vanities haue forsake him that was mercifull vn to them.
9 But I wil sacrifice vn to the with the voce of thankesgeuinge and will paye that I have vowed that sauinge cometh of the lorde.
10 And the lorde spake vn to the fish: and it cast out Ionas agayne vppon ye drie lande.
Chapter 3
1 Then came the worde of the lorde vn to Ionas agayne sayenge:
2 vpp ad gett ye to Niniue that greate citie and preache vn to the the preachynge which I bade ye.
3 And he arose and wet to Niniue at ye lordes comaundmet. Niniue was a greate citie vn to god coteynige .iij. dayes iourney
4 And Ionas went to and entred in to ye citie euen a dayes iourney and cried sayenge: There shall not passe .xl. dayes but Niniue shalbe ouerthrowen.
5 And the people of Niniue beleued God and proclaymed fastynge ad arayed them selues in sackcloth as well the greate as the small of them.
6 And ye tydinges came vn to the kinge of Niniue which arose out of his sete and did his apparell of and put on sackcloth and sate hi downe in asshes.
7 And it was cried ad commaunded in Niniue by ye auctorite of ye kinge ad of his lordes sayenge: se that nether ma or beest oxe or shepe tast ought at al and that they nether fede or drinke water.
8 And they put on sackcloth both man ad beest and cried vn to God mightily ad turned euery man from his weked waye and fro doenge wroge in which they were acustomed sayenge:
9 who can tell whether god will turne and repent and cease from his fearce wrathe that we perish not?
10 And when god saw theyr workes how they turned from theyr weked wayes he repented on ye euell which he sayd he wold doo vn to them ad dyd it not.”
In other words, anything goes. “My conscience told me to do it!”
I would have answered "Unitarian Universalist" but I guess that would have been too obvious?
Sin? What’s that?
Next guess- ELCA..... I am still waiting for the ELCA PING
12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.
I call it freedom.
No, relativism is much closer to the mark.
Hey newby,since hiller no longer walks amoung us how many new babies do you think are alive today?You sound like a leftist.
A church that long ago jettisoned the Word of God and substituted some lame, feel-good, I’m OK-You’re OK self-styled delusion.
Isnt there something in the bible that says sinners should not go to church?
Setting the drink down without a coaster.
“Perhaps a more pertinent question might be: What kind of church embraces and admires Tiller’s murderer ??”
1) No church embraces and admires Tiller’s murderer because he has been in custody since the day he did it.
2) Can you be any more liberal?
None that are Christian.
Doesn't that sort of depend on what choice is made?
The Bible is pretty clear that Eve's choice in the Garden was made for what she thought were good reasons and in good faith. (Adams's choice was less so.) God nevertheless expelled them both from the Garden.
How is that MORE pertinent? You mean, because it was more wrong to kill Tiller than for Tiller to kill all those babies? (Wagglebee, how many babies are we talking here?)
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