Morality and the Irrationality of an Evolutionary Worldview

AiG ^ | May 13, 2009 | Dr. Georgia Purdom and Dr. Jason Lisle

[GodGunsGuts]

Morality and the Irrationality of an Evolutionary Worldview

by Dr. Georgia Purdom and Dr. Jason Lisle

May 13, 2009

Morality is a very difficult problem for the evolutionary worldview. This is not to say that evolutionists are somehow less moral than biblical creationists—or anyone else. Most evolutionists adhere to a moral code and believe in the concept of right and wrong. But evolutionists have no rational reason for this position. Thus, only creationists have a rational, logical, and consistent reason for morality...

[Nathan Zachary]

I agree with that. I'm not worried about "science" either. As I've said a thousand times already, truth will lead to God.

Science should be left to lead wherever it leads.

What evolutionists are doing however, is to discredit any science that favors creationism. All 'science' in their view should be work that leads to, or proves evolutionary theory.

This is how we end up with bogus formula's like the carbon dating formula, an equation designed to lead to a predetermined end. It's B.S.

[Two Ravens]

“Are these activities consistent with what Jesus taught?” Most people with even an elementary knowledge of Christ will admit that such killing is inconsistent with His teachings.

If Jesus and Yahweh are in fact one and the same then God himself is inconsistent, since he changed his mind about the morality of killing babies between the Old and New Testaments.

Thus, God is as big a moral relativist as anyone.

[mnehring]

What evolutionists are doing however, is to discredit any science that favors creationism.

I disagree, I doubt many of them even think the slightest about it in their daily job, they just have something in front of them, they run their tests and do their analysis. Where do you get that Carbon Dating (I assume you mean Radiocarbon Dating) is BS? It has flaws that need some calibration due to C14 differences in the atmosphere, but those are fractional differences, definitely not enough to account for the difference between 6k years and 20Million years. I think, at most, the calibration difference is just a couple of percent top. Also, RC Dating is just one of hundreds of ways of dating, including many, many other radioisotopes, so there is a way to create an average measurement between those.

[Two Ravens]

Totalitarian regimes have only killed more people due to the state of advanced technology. If the church had had similar technology during its time in power, the bloodbath would have been equally as great, since the murderous intention was no less there.

[dmz]

We don’t kill people for switching faiths. In fact the christian church never has in all it’s days.
_______

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

But you are right, those that were killed were killer for NOT switching faiths.

[mnehring]

What evolutionists are doing however, is to discredit any science that favors creationism.

I would also add something I've argued many a time.. many who are promoting some form of young earth creationism seem to be going out of their way to discredit Christianity and religion in general. I know some people honestly believe this, and that's fine.. but you have some folks like that Kent Hovand(sp?) guy who purposefully distort science and make completely off-base, illogical, and sometimes deceptive arguments to prove their point, that they, in my mind, appear to be trying to discredit Christians. They are driving people away from Christianity..

[Nathan Zachary]

Uh, no. I have done no such thing.

God's laws are engraved on our souls, our very being. They simply become clearer when we seek out God and allow the holy spirit into our hearts to guide us.

Aithests try make their own moral absolutes, basing them on whatever feels right at the time. The flesh is subject to the devils temptations.

[Two Ravens]

God's laws are engraved on our souls, our very being. They simply become clearer when we seek out God and allow the holy spirit into our hearts to guide us.

With this statement of mystical subjectivism, you put the final nail in the coffin of the published article's thesis: that God is the only basis for a logical and consistent morality.

God has nothing to do with logical objective moral absolutes.

[Nathan Zachary]

You and your "god killing babies" crap. Oh I know how badly you want it to be true, but it simply isn't.

First, God never "killed" any babies.

Second, your evolutionarily atheists have been killed a billion in just one century, and are hell bent on killing another billion over the next 10 years in the name of "Gaia".

[Pox]

Another moronic fallacy. While the three given examples pale in comparison to the 20th century slaughters, the total prior to the last century, as far as religious derived bloodshed, is easily 10 times what your boogeymen accomplished, in my opinion. The putrid excuses made in that diatribe are typical of creationists and particularly those who deny any religious ties the the so-called atheist killers of the 20th century.

Even though creationists deny that the 20th century tyrants had any religious ties, there seems to be a lot of information out there which contradicts those assumptions. In either case, it truly doesn't matter to historical numbers as far as responsibility concerning human bloodshed go as they point inevitably towards religion as the primary culprit over the last 2000 years, and even prior to that. Whole cities, peoples and civilizations have been wiped out in the name of (insert Deity here). Cumulative totals would likely be ten times that of your communist totalitarians. Consider that I am not excluding the western hemisphere from those historical totals.

Religion is far from being ‘benign’ throughout history.

[mnehring]

Thus is the problem in trying to bring morality questions into an a-moral issue. People of all stripes apply science, philosophy, or religion in moral and immoral ways. It is the flaw of humans. See my above comment regarding Newtonian Physics.

[Nathan Zachary]

"God has nothing to do with logical objective moral absolutes."

I haven't put any nails in anythings, sorry.

As for God having nothing to do with "logical objective moral absolutes"

That seems to be a problem in the world these days, doesn't it.

But why is it, when a homosexual does his nasty things, he feels so damn guilty about it? Why do they become so self destructive?

What's written on his soul that comes back into his subconscious and conflicts with his chosen moral absolutes?

You can make societal laws that "legalize" the laws given by God, but you can't erase the "feeling" that somehow you are doing something wrong.

Have you 'coveted' your neighbors wife? Feel bad about it? Not even a little? What if someone coveted yours? They are consenting adults after all.

[Nathan Zachary]

"Even though creationists deny that the 20th century tyrants had any religious ties, there seems to be a lot of information out there which contradicts those assumptions."

really? where?

Stalin was a devout Jew? Hitler was a practicing Catholic? MAO was what? What about Khan, Alexander the great? All religious nuts? You only wish. You're so full of it your eyes are brown.

Even things blamed on the church, such as the Spanish inquisitions, weren't anything ordered or saw over by the church. They were campaigns carried out by the ruler of the day. They had nothing to do with the church.

Your 200 year figure is a joke. Christians barely existed for the first 300 years. They were persecuted by the Roman empire.

The church didn't even gain any real power until the 1400's, So sorry, your attempt to paint religion as the culprit fails miserably in the face of FACT.

There was ONE "religion" if you insist on calling it that, that did and still does a lot of slaughtering, and that is Islam. But it seems to be the one you embrace, or leave alone at best.

[Nathan Zachary]

oops 2000 year figure.

[GL of Sector 2814]

You and your "god killing babies" crap. Oh I know how badly you want it to be true, but it simply isn't.

First, God never "killed" any babies.

I seem to recall reading something about a worldwide flood, not to mention the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. One presumes that babies were killed by the being that caused both of those events...if you believe in that sort of thing, of course.

[allmendream]

I guess because this guy isn't a Creationist he just doesn't have a rational, logical, and consistent reason for morality.

[dmz]

First, God never “killed” any babies.
________

No babies in Sodom and Gomorrah? No babies in existence during the flood?

Oh right, those are just, how did you put it earlier in this thread?, oh yeah, “old metaphorical bible stories”.

It is an unusual Christian who puts the Old Testament at such an arms length as you do.

[Pox]

First of all religion encompasses a wide meaning and large groups of people.

However, now it's time to make something a little clear.

You're so full of it your eyes are brown.

You want to sink to that level, fine. You and your religion are a prime example of the hypocrisy that bible thumpers display on a regular basis. From your common gutter dwelling homeless alcoholic begging for handouts on a street corner in the name of (insert Deity or Religion here) to the Pedophile priests that infest religious institutions (and has since its inception), organized religion is a pitiful excuse for anyone to claim the 'moral high ground' on any subject at any time. You're defending the likes of Jim Jones (the original kool aid man himself), Jesse Jackson Jr. and Al Sharpton, get it? Oh no, but if those who practice religion suddenly go against those teachings, they are not religious or devout or a true believer, blah blah blah, here come the pitiful rose-colored-glasses excuses galore.

Freaking hypocrites. I'm surprised more religious folk aren't all for Homosexuality and it's spin offs. I'm expecting any day now to see a want ad such as, oh:

Local pastor needed. Free membership to NAMBLA included!

Organized Religion is an abusive institution that should be consigned to the dustbin of history, IMO.

However, my own personal beliefs are more American in nature. You can believe what you please as long as you don't attempt to force your unsolicited beliefs upon me.

[allmendream]

What a disgusting guilt by association post.

Jim Jones’ religion was communism. I see you have bought the MSM spin that his was somehow a Christian movement.

A side of ignorance to go with your vituperous main course.

[Pox]

If you look closely at my post you will note that your reply was a given, not you specifically, but it was expected.

In 1956, The Peoples Temple was founded in Indianapolis as an integrated church combining evangelical, enthusiastic religion and loosely socialist politics. Jim Jones, the founder and pastor of the church, preformed healings which attracted many members. The congregation was predominately black.

Like it or not, religion was used to facilitate that massacre. Guilt by association my ass!