THE POPE STANDS UP (and walks out on Palestinian leader Sheikh Taysir al-Tamimi)

NY Post ^ | May 12, 2009

[presidio9]

In an action that spoke far louder than words, Pope Benedict yesterday walked out of an interfaith meeting in Jerusalem after the chief Islamic judge of the Palestinian Authority launched into an anti-Israeli diatribe.

The pontiff, on his first day in Jerusalem, did not realize at first that Sheikh Taysir al-Tamimi, speaking in Arabic, was condemning the "crimes of the Jewish state" and accusing Israel of having "slaughtered women, children and senior citizens."

But as soon as he was told the nature of the sheikh's tirade, he stood and left the meeting, which took place at Notre Dame church, before it had concluded.

It's not as if the organizers shouldn't have seen this coming: Back in 2000, Tamimi did the same thing during a visit by the late Pope John Paul II.

A spokesman for the Holy See later condemned the remarks, saying that

[MarkBsnr]

***They object to scripture because they don’t know how to interpret it for themselves. They depend on their Church to do it for them. Very sad.***

We do what Jesus commanded. We do not invent theology as we go along.

[MarkBsnr]

***The reason I post is because I am in full communion with the Jesus’ universal (catholic) church.***

Then why have you taken such care to indicate otherwise?

[MarkBsnr]

***I have said nothing despicable about individual Roman Catholics. I have made a number of Scripturally based statements against the teachings of the Roman Catholic priests.***

I notice that you avoid the term “Gospel based statements” because your Scriptural proofs are normally misunderstanding of Paul and the more silly ones I have indicated that they are wrong based upon the Gospels.

***But, if god has given the Holy Spirit as He promised, the Word will not go out empty.***

This is not the first time that you have typed ‘god’. I must therefore assume that this is not accidental or a typo. I must ask in order to find out your theological position if your god is indeed Paul rather than Jesus Christ?

***I am not ashamed of my faith in Jesus Christ.He has rescued me froma life of sin. He has promised me eternal life. ***

Do you have this promise from your god in writing? Could you scan it and share it with us?

***John 3: 16”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.***

Thus far, I can only see a belief in a weird interpretation of Paul, not in the Jesus Christ of the Gospels.

[MarkBsnr]

***It’s one thing to want to be a brave, heroic iconoclast, but it reaches another level when it’s done out of a sense of fashion.
The sad and pathetic tale of the fashionable iconoclast.***

Don’t worry. They can pour themselves a big bowl of YOPIOS and slurp it up with whatever sugar coating they prefer.

When you make it all up on the spur of the moment, why expect any continuity?

[MarkBsnr]

***Then they rail against us heretics***

Most of the railing on this thread has been provided by yourself. But you are correct. By definition, you are heretic, verging on apostate, judging by your posts.

[MarkBsnr]

***Stand up for your faith and get knocked down by their insults.***

The Faith of the Church is well documented. The faith of individual individuals scattered across the flotsam and jetsam of the Reformation is varied, variable and, holding it up to the light of Scripture and the church, in error.

Faith is easy; a man can have faith in Oral Roberts or Joel Osteen. Or Obama. The Faith of the Church, now, that took centuries to develop by the Doctors of the Church. The faiths of these individuals or little cults take hours to develop. Or whisky.

[MarkBsnr]

***I’m obsessed with seeing that Catholics KNOW they can be saved HERE and NOW, not wondering if they’ll slide in somehow because they were baptized or confirmed or take the Eucharist.***

As St. Paul says, we have hope and we believe. There is nothing that says that we have surety and knowledge. That is Jesus Judging us. We cannot Judge.

[WVKayaker]

As St. Paul says, we have hope and we believe. There is nothing that says that we have surety and knowledge. That is Jesus Judging us. We cannot Judge.

Another lies from your clergy!

Mark, I see you are still spouting the "party line". Your church must not still use the same Greek texts as were originally used by your scholars. It says what it says, not what I interpret. Read it yourself. I will accept Paul's word over yours.

Maybe you ought to check out your Greek lexicon... Start with John 3:16 quoted.

Paul disagrees with you, and agrees with Jesus. Hmmmm...

Here's some more weird interpretation of Paul. Please enlighten us as to which words are mis-translated. I'm sure you can do it (NOT!). If you can't, ask your priest to do it for you.

I have included both English and Greek for your comparison. I'll wait, but I won't hold my breath.

Romans 8: 5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man[e] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind[f] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.

9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 8:5-11 (1550 Stephanus New Testament) 5οι γαρ κατα σαρκα οντες τα της σαρκος φρονουσιν οι δε κατα πνευμα τα του πνευματος

6το γαρ φρονημα της σαρκος θανατος το δε φρονημα του πνευματος ζωη και ειρηνη

7διοτι το φρονημα της σαρκος εχθρα εις θεον τω γαρ νομω του θεου ουχ υποτασσεται ουδε γαρ δυναται

8οι δε εν σαρκι οντες θεω αρεσαι ου δυνανται

9υμεις δε ουκ εστε εν σαρκι αλλ εν πνευματι ειπερ πνευμα θεου οικει εν υμιν ει δε τις πνευμα χριστου ουκ εχει ουτος ουκ εστιν αυτου

10ει δε χριστος εν υμιν το μεν σωμα νεκρον δι αμαρτιαν το δε πνευμα ζωη δια δικαιοσυνην

11ει δε το πνευμα του εγειραντος ιησουν εκ νεκρων οικει εν υμιν ο εγειρας τον χριστον εκ νεκρων ζωοποιησει και τα θνητα σωματα υμων δια το ενοικουν αυτου πνευμα εν υμιν

[WVKayaker]

Do you have this promise from your god in writing? Could you scan it and share it with us?

You already did it for me. Faith, FRiend, faith... in Jesus, not your crumbling Vatican!

You tell us about how not to judge, then do it yourself. For the definition of hypocrite, see: marbsnr...

***John 3: 16”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.***

[WVKayaker]

Faith in what? If you ignore Jesus and repudiate His Church and misunderstand Paul, what can your faith possibly be in? Not Jesus, that is apparant.

Show me where I have ignored Jesus. I proudly claim to be a member in good standing in His church. I do not bow to Rome, or to your Pope. You may continue to bow to him and kiss his ring.

You have claimed how I have misunderstood Paul, but you have not demonstrated a wrong interpretation. You only state that your church "says so". Please enlighten us with scholarship, not opinion...

Romans 8: 28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;

we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

[l] 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[m] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

-with love, Paul

[MarkBsnr]

***As St. Paul says, we have hope and we believe. There is nothing that says that we have surety and knowledge. That is Jesus Judging us. We cannot Judge.

Another lies from your clergy! ***

No, the truth from Jesus and Paul. They are not at odds, you see. Only the non Christians are.

***Start with John 3:16 quoted. ***

Already have. I quoted as well that Jesus says that not everyone who calls Lord, Lord will be saved. You claim that they are. Direct contradiction to the Gospels. You are wrong.

***Here’s some more weird interpretation of Paul. Please enlighten us as to which words are mis-translated.***

It is fascinating to watch your posts writhe and wriggle away from the truth. I may have issue with some of the translations, but the main issue is the misunderstanding that the non Christians which appear to be represented by yourself, have of Jesus, Paul, and the Church.

[MarkBsnr]

***John 3: 16”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.***

From what you have posted, this does not indicate any belief in the Christian Jesus any more than the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in the Christian Jesus. You post Gospel verse, but without showing understanding of it.

[MarkBsnr]

***Show me where I have ignored Jesus. ***

Jesus says that not everyone who calls Lord, Lord will be saved. You have posted numerous times that this is not so.

Jesus gave the Keys to Peter to be the Steward of the Kingdom, with earthly authority. You have posted numerous times that this is not so.

Those who do not follow Jesus cannot be Christian.

***I proudly claim to be a member in good standing in His church.***

Based on what? You repudiate the Ten Commandments. You repudiate the Church of Jesus Christ and its authority. You repudiate the doctrine of free will.

***You have claimed how I have misunderstood Paul, but you have not demonstrated a wrong interpretation.***

How many times do I have to repeat the above demonstrations, along with the others that I have posted?

[WVKayaker]

***You have claimed how I have misunderstood Paul, but you have not demonstrated a wrong interpretation.*** -wvk

How many times do I have to repeat the above demonstrations, along with the others that I have posted? -mark

Mark, you can tell me all about the authority of your church. It's authority is over you and your brethren, not over all Christians. I'm not interested, nor will I ever be. You have not given any scholarly exposition of Scripture, but instead you have repeated your church's interpretation.

I WILL NEVER consider the Roman Catholic church as the soul authority of Christendom. I will never bow and kiss the ring of your Pope. The Scripture clearly tells us we only have one Father, and He is in Heaven. I can repeat those Scriptures for you to ignore, again, but you still will see only through "Roman Catholic eyes".

We can continue this posting back and forth, but your dedication to your church is overtaking the Truth. It profits nobody for us to argue like this.

I never repudiated the Ten Commandments. Jesus "fulfilled" (that means finished in Rio Linda) and gave us a clear opportunity to spend eternity with Him. It requires little, but your church can't gain anything from that. Jesus , Peter, and Paul all agree. It is your church's misrepresentation of Scripture that causes the problems. If you seek the truth, then study some Greek, compare the scholars of your church against it, and get back to me. Don't "interpret" anything, just read it in the original context.

You have the benefit of the Scriptures in your hand. To have any efficacy, the Word must be in your heart. If He's there, you can face anything. Without Him, your beads and bells, smells and idols are fruitless.

You're right. Many who say "Lord, Lord" are in for a big surprise.

I know in Whom I believe. It isn't in your church. Like Paul, I am persuaded that He can keep me. I know I can't! He told me He would, and I believe Him. My faith is completely in Jesus Christ. I have already posted my adherence to the "Nicene Creed", but that is for the universal small "c" church. You can't claim an exclusive on truth.

In the meantime, Jesus tells us that the water is needed once. We don't go back to the well repeatedly for complete satisfaction...

John 4: 7When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, "Will you give me a drink?" 8(His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.) 9The Samaritan woman said to him, "You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?" (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)

10Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

11"Sir," the woman said, "you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds?"

13Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

15The woman said to him, "Sir, give me this water so that I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water."

16He told her, "Go, call your husband and come back."

17"I have no husband," she replied.

Jesus said to her, "You are right when you say you have no husband. 18The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true."

19"Sir," the woman said, "I can see that you are a prophet. 20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."

21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

25The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."

26Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."

***

... and this from Paul. He is again repeating his admonition to the believers. He is insisting that if you are living in the Spirit, that in spite of failures, you are forgiven. Believe it, or not! :

Ephesians 4:20You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. 21Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

25Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26"In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27and do not give the devil a foothold. 28He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.

29Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

[Petronski]

The Scripture clearly tells us we only have one Father...

You think you fell out of the sky?

Of course you have more than one Father. How do/did you refer to your dad, by the way? CAN'T call him FATHER! Oh no.

[Petronski]

I never repudiated the Ten Commandments.

ROFLMTO

Only the fanciest bikes can pedal backwards like that.

[MarkBsnr]

***Mark, you can tell me all about the authority of your church.***

Did you even read my post? I am telling you about your use of your misinterpretation of Paul to directly contradict plain verses of Jesus.

I am also asking you to give me your intepretation of the Keys which you have not done in lo, these half dozen posts in which I directly asked you.

Why do you keep shifting and misdirecting? I have posted plainly. I have stated plainly, and I have asked for your own position plainly.

***I never repudiated the Ten Commandments. ***

You rejected them in a post to Petronski and I was so aghast that I had to step in to help confirm that that was what you meant.

***You’re right. Many who say “Lord, Lord” are in for a big surprise. ***

That’s not what your repeated posts of misinterpretations of Paul say. Why?

***I know in Whom I believe. It isn’t in your church.***

It’s not my church. Unlike those who rebelled against Jesus, I don’t have a church. I get to follow Jesus. Not some either jovial or severe church of men - the children of the Reformation.

***I have already posted my adherence to the “Nicene Creed”, but that is for the universal small “c” church.***

Interesting. Those who created it meant the Catholic Church as in the Latin and Orthodox. Do you gainsay them? Does your gainsaying mean that you repudiate them?

Do you believe in the communion of saints? If so, what form does that belief take? Do you believe in one baptism for the remission of sins? Many of our Reformed and Pentecostal brethren do not, although they consider themselves Christian.

***... and this from Paul. He is again repeating his admonition to the believers. He is insisting that if you are living in the Spirit, that in spite of failures, you are forgiven. Believe it, or not! : ***

I appreciate the fact that you are now speaking to your beliefs in these passages. The passage does not say that you are automatically forgiven. You must pair it with the passages that call for repentence for sins.

***You can’t claim an exclusive on truth.***

Jesus created His Church, not the Reformation of men. Be wary whom you side with.

[WVKayaker]

Put the bottle down, and back away from the keyboard. That can be the only excuse for your drivel.

Petronski, the proven liar and mark, the guy who likes to spit on the screen. I don't care to keep posting to your repeated proven lies. Please stop posting to me with your untrue claims and lies. Please stop posting me about anything. I haven't rattled your chains on purpose! You're just howling at the moon, when you post that stuff to me! This thread needs to die.

Christ is not honored by brothers flinging charges and counter-charges. We agree on more than we disagree. I just get tired of your lies and innuendos and claims of exclusivity. I am not a (Roman) Catholic. I belong to Christ's catholic church. You can call it what you want, Pete.

Let's agree to disagree, and try to be less disagreeable. I'll trust the Holy Spirit to take over for me! Will you? Can you?

[Petronski]

You quote me Scriptures from Exodus. That reveals your lack of trust in the Holy Spirit. We are not bound by the laws of the Old Testament, brother, but are only bound by Christ working through us.

See? We're not bound by Exodus, specifically Exodus 20:16 which I had quoted.

[Petronski]

Put the bottle down, and back away from the keyboard. That can be the only excuse for your drivel. Petronski, the proven liar and mark, the guy who likes to spit on the screen. I don't care to keep posting to your repeated proven lies. Please stop posting to me with your untrue claims and lies. Please stop posting me about anything. I haven't rattled your chains on purpose! You're just howling at the moon, when you post that stuff to me! This thread needs to die.

You are known by your fruits.

In this case, your fruits are spastic, manic character assassination...or at least an attempt at such.