GM, union clash as bankruptcy looms for auto giant

Yahoo ^ | 05/10/2009 | Joe Szczesny

[safetysign]

General Motors is sparring with its main union over plans to shut US plants and outsource production to Mexico and Asia as bankruptcy looms over the troubled automaker, union sources said.

Negotiations were also complicated by a long-standing feud between GM and the United Auto Workers as they raced to fashion a new labor agreement ahead of the June 1 deadline imposed by President Barack Obama's automotive task force.

"This is really about the shape of GM in the US and its foot print in North America in the future," a senior UAW official who asked not to be identified told AFP.

Neither the UAW nor GM would comment on the status of negotiations which formally began last week, although two senior union officials went public with their criticism.

"The UAW strongly objects to GM's restructuring plan because it essentially means that GM will be shifting more of its manufacturing footprint from the US to Mexico, Korea, Japan and China," UAW legislative director Alan Reuther wrote in a letter to Congress.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

You hit on some key factors.

Comparing the current American educational system to that of Japan, China and Europe, It is no wonder why the US is losing so quickly.

In today's complex/technical manufacturing realm, the average American can't come close to having the necessary education and training to meet the requirements of these manufacturers. It also has a great deal to with worker attitude and work ethics. Our educational system has done the opposite of what needs to be done to correct it.

Americans are by far, at the very bottom of all categories. There is no way that we can change this dynamic in time to turn it around. Especially as quickly as this thing has deteriorated.

[Hodar]

I tend to take a look at Unions, as I do anything, be it an workforce, a selective society or club, a food additive, or an appliance. What ‘good’ do they perform? Does their ‘good’ outweigh their ‘cost’?

The USA used to have a thriving textile industry; it became Unionized (and celebrated in several movies, featuring all the big ‘stars’). Remember the “Look for the Union Label” jingles on TV and the radio? Funny, no significant textile industry in the USA anymore, it’s moved out of the country. Unions killed it.

We used to have a thriving Rail Road system. Unions killed that too. Steel Industry? Dead. Electronics manufacturing industries? Mining? Garmet and Newspaper? Dead and gone.

The only unions left, are still stuck in their parasitical ways. The Aircraft building industry (Boeing, Lockheed, Martin and the others - are consolidating and/or going under). The Travel Industy has filed for bankrupcy already, we have seen Delta emerge from bankrupcy, as did Contineantal and others. Unions are sucking that industry dry.

The UAW has killed Pontiac, and it looks like Chrysler is gone too. GM is living on taxpayer sponsored - borrowed time, just like Chrysler.

Want your industry to fail, to have all of your employees laid off, and to see yet another industry move over-seas? Just Unionize.

[RayChuang88]

I'm surprised that both GM and the UAW has NOT embraced the FairTax proposal.

Under FairTax, the competitive advantages of foreign car manufacturers disappear, and GM has all the incentive to keep jobs and corporate headquarter operations in the USA, not to mention everybody wanting to hold GM stock since there are no more income tax consequences for selling GM stock or dividend payments on GM stock! The result is obvious: the UAW won't have to worry about "outsourcing" of production, and GM don't have to worry about paying taxes on the revenue generated to the company.

[sionnsar]

I bought a new Oldsmobile diesel station wagon. It ran for 27 miles and then stopped on a parkway. At 26,000 miles the injection pump again failed. I junked it at around 85,000 miles after it caught on fire. I bought a used 80 Pontiac diesel (thinking they had improved it). I lasted about 50,000 miles. I sold it for about $700 and they towed it away ( a connecting rod bearing went out).

My first new car was a Honda 600 (as in 600cc engine) Coupe. It was stolen at 170k miles, original engine. Since then every car but one has been Japanese and I retire them at 250k miles. (The '89 Accord was rebuilt by next owner and is probably still running.)

[catnipman]

Yes, and they’ll last practically forever, so by the time you really need a new car, maybe the Republicans will have regained power and undone some of the economic damage.

[Steely Tom]

You figured out my secret plan!

[yankeedame]

Just intercepted this text from the Messiah's blackberry.

“Ron, tell the Union not to agree to any GM proposal. Rham and I have your back. We'll push GM into bankruptcy, screw the creditors and give you majority ownership. Don't worry about what the bankruptcy law says on paper. You'll own the place in a month.”

Put me in mind of something that happened (supposedly)in old Chinese centuries ago:

=====================================================================================================================

A wealthy man died. Thieves came and stole the body shortly before burial. They demanded a huge random. The distraught family, not knowing what to do, went to a wise sage and asked his advice.

"Do not pay," answered the old man, " and be content to wait. In time they will return the body, for no one wants it but you."

Well satisfied, the family did so. The thieves, despairing at ever getting any sort of random from the suddenly stubborn family, went to the same sage and asked for his advise.

"Keep the body," answered the old man," and be content to wait, for no one has the body but you."

[catnipman]

Yeah, I'm a Honda man myself:

1. Buy Honda.

2. Add oil, gas, tires, and batteries.

3. Turn key and go from point A to point B for 13 years.

4. Probably will go for another 10.

5. Plus, it's an Accord station wagon, so I can carry a 10 foot 2x6 in it with the rear door shut!

My first (and last) U.S. auto was a 1970 Mach I. Fun as hell to drive (when it worked). Of course, it would never start when it rained, brakes were life-threatening, clutch linkage had to be replaced very so often, and it was almost impossible to change certain spark plugs.

Like Scarlett O’hara, I vowed, “If I have to lie, steal, cheat or kill, as God is my witness, I'll never own a car again that refuses to start when it rains!”

[catnipman]

They won’t need to worry about paying taxes anyway. They’re never going to make a dime of profit. Neither will Chrysler.

[BobL]

“To the UAW:

You made your bed now sleep in it.”

Geeze, what are they complaining about? They made Chrysler go BK and have brought GM to their knees...one step from being BK. It sounds like the UAW is having one of their best years in the history of the company...they’re teaching THE MAN a lesson.

[REPANDPROUDOFIT]

It won't matter how much money 0bambi throws at GM & Chrysler - they're both dead already

IMO, There is one scenario in which "throwing money at them" would have worked. The government has "thrown" $30-35 billion (?) at them. Where is that money now? Gone. And they need more. Anyone who thinks that we are not funneling billions to them on a continuing basis is a fool. They are on life support and we are the IV line!

The government should have structured the bailouts in the form of incentives. Any US citizen who purchased a new car/truck from the Big Three should have qualified for a $5000 to $10,000 tax credit, right off the bottom line owed to the IRS. It could have been $2000 off each year for 4 years, $3000 off for two years, $1000 for ten years, etc. Or, just set a max and let the taxpayer design his own plan. Cars would have flown off the lots. The dealers and suppliers would have loved it. If the companies and the union were unable to survive with a windfall like that, then they were unsustainable! But, that is their problem. Not mine!!!

One thing is for sure - they would have sold a lot of cars and at least some of us would have had something to show for the $$$$$$ - a shiny new car. As it is, the money is going straight down the drain!

BTW. We purchased a new van last Wednesday - a Honda Odyssey Touring. Yes, it is made in Alabama by a non-union company. But, you better believe we would have bought "American" if the tax incentive had been there!

***I can just hear the uproar from the "poverty awareness groups"! "How come all those rich folks get a tax credit and I don't? Oh yeah, they are the ones buying new cars! Well, just damn, I want a new car too, even if I don't have any money or pay any taxes." And, before you know it, there would be a new "entitlement" program. Oh well, there is a down side to every idea!

[nascarnation]

Taxpayers are shelling out tens of billions (and plenty more to come) to provide lush retirements and platinum bennies for UAW members.
Can anyone in the GOP grab this and run with it?
Tea time anyone?

[nascarnation]

As you may know, the Reuther brothers worked in Russia in the 30s so they could learn the system.