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The seal is broken on seceding from the Union and is now mainstream discussion.
U4prez.com ^ | 4/16/2009 | Eric Gurr

Posted on 04/16/2009 6:50:11 AM PDT by rrdog

What is the root of the secessionist movement? The driving force at the grass roots level is of course money. Many Americans are rightly disturbed by the transfer of their wealth, and the wealth of their children, to companies that made risky investments, or were poorly managed. This is new territory for the government. The transfer started under George W. Bush with his bank bailout and auto makers bailouts, and the Obama administration has really poured on the spending with additional bailouts and stimulus packages. Citizens of more fiscally conservative states are finding that there money is being redirected from their pockets, and sent to other states.

In years past politicians from both parties have used the guilt factor to increase spending for the "needy". This tempers the backlash from the populace as they realize they are to sacrifice a new boat, or nicer home, for the greater good of society. Today, citizens are being asked to sacrifice their children's education, vacations, and even the home they are in, so that money can be transferred from their wallets to multi-billion dollar corporations.

When we add more government controls and regulations on everything from cigarettes, to fast food and guns, we begin to see the problem. Government is now coming at everyone at some level, over some issue. This piling on is causing those fringe secessionist movements to became mainstream very quickly.

(Excerpt) Read more at u4prez.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 10thamendment; confederacy; confederate; cwii; seceding; secession; statesrights
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To: puroresu; Non-Sequitur

Oh for heaven’s sake!

Make that, “You can’t assert that these lawless activities by the federal government are constitutional....”

I’m the world’s worst typist.


201 posted on 04/17/2009 11:50:21 AM PDT by puroresu (Enjoy ASIAN CINEMA? See my Freeper page for recommendations (updated!).)
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To: exit82

Your last sentence is what many of us fear is going to happen. A country needs a common cultural bond or it will fall apart. I really don’t see how we can stay one nation through this century, thanks to the changes wrought in our nation starting in the 1960s. The cultural Marxists have set us upon a course of dissolution.


202 posted on 04/17/2009 12:05:49 PM PDT by puroresu (Enjoy ASIAN CINEMA? See my Freeper page for recommendations (updated!).)
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To: AUH2O Repub; All
lol AT you.

your "fedrl gubmint publick screwl edumakashun" is showing for ALL to see.

perhaps you should contact "N-S, The DAMNyankee Minister of Propaganda" & ask him for your "secret squirrel number", as you are evidently as clue-LESS as he & the other members of "the DAMNyankee coven of fools, nitwits, BIGOTS, halfwits, antisemites & south-HATERS" are.

given your DUMB-bunny response, you will be WELCOMED into the coven.

free dixie,sw

203 posted on 04/17/2009 1:59:57 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to TYRANTS is OBEDIENCE to God. T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: stand watie
your "fedrl gubmint publick screwl edumakashun" is showing for ALL to see.

swattie, swattie, scourge of the uneducated.

perhaps you should contact "N-S, The DAMNyankee Minister of Propaganda" & ask him for your "secret squirrel number", as you are evidently as clue-LESS as he & the other members of "the DAMNyankee coven of fools, nitwits, BIGOTS, halfwits, antisemites & south-HATERS" are.

But how can anybody take you seriously when you write like that.

Could it be that your own "edumakashun" -- or lack thereof -- is showing?

I know you'll respond that it's the content that matters not the form.

That's just it, swattie. That's just it.

204 posted on 04/17/2009 2:07:42 PM PDT by x
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To: usmcobra
"Just once couldn't you agree with me-----" = NOPE, because your every statement is 100% factually WRONG (and frequently INTENTIONALLY a LIE.) & that of a STATIST nitwit & a TURNCOAT to your native southland.

NATURE is UNkind to turncoats.

free dixie,sw

205 posted on 04/17/2009 2:08:12 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to TYRANTS is OBEDIENCE to God. T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: stand watie
lol AT you. your "fedrl gubmint publick screwl edumakashun" is showing for ALL to see. perhaps you should contact "N-S, The DAMNyankee Minister of Propaganda" & ask him for your "secret squirrel number", as you are evidently as clue-LESS as he & the other members of "the DAMNyankee coven of fools, nitwits, BIGOTS, halfwits, antisemites & south-HATERS" are. given your DUMB-bunny response, you will be WELCOMED into the coven. free dixie,sw
what the hell are you talking about?
206 posted on 04/17/2009 2:08:31 PM PDT by AUH2O Repub (Should have been Thompson/Hutchinson)
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To: x
why HELLO, "x".

once more you have impressed us all with your ARROGANT ignorance, silliNESS & lack of cleverness.

i make fun of "the public school system" (just as Rush does) because it is MIS-educating our children, fills their heads full of BILGE & LIES & in sum is a complete waste of money/time/effort.

had i been made "king for a week", i would have first ABOLISHED the public schools altogether & given grants to each parent to educate their children in whatever school they deem wisest/most suitable.

laughing AT you, as MOST here do.

free dixie,sw

207 posted on 04/17/2009 2:14:19 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to TYRANTS is OBEDIENCE to God. T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: AUH2O Repub
what i'm talking about is that you evidently have NO understanding of CITIZEN's/STATES RIGHTS/POWERS and that the union is at least as "indivisible" as as a cherry pie.

as i said, the TENTH AMENDMENT makes your argument (such as it is) LOOK foolish & UNeducated. like that of so many others of our countrymen, the public schools has filled your head full of MUSH & statist NONSENSE.

NONE of the states, at the time of the founding of this REPUBLIC, would have FREELY joined a union that they could NOT just as FREELY "depart at their own motion".

laughing AT you.

free dixie,sw

208 posted on 04/17/2009 2:20:49 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to TYRANTS is OBEDIENCE to God. T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: stand watie

Oh, ok, let’s just ignore history. BTW - where did you go to school?


209 posted on 04/17/2009 2:24:26 PM PDT by AUH2O Repub (Should have been Thompson/Hutchinson)
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To: AUH2O Repub
a church-related boarding school, then Tulane, UT/Austin & Auburn Univ. (as well as numerous grad school courses, offered overseas, by several universities, when i was in the Army).

there is NO history to ignore. - just an UNJUST war against the CSA by "the clay-footed secular saint of DAMNyankeeland", "DIShonest abe lincoln, the cheap, scheming shyster" & "his merry band of crooks,war profiteers, thieves & scoundrels".

free dixie,sw

210 posted on 04/17/2009 2:31:55 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to TYRANTS is OBEDIENCE to God. T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: x
x, I'd like to hear where you come down on this. Assuming you believe that the Constitution forbids unilateral secession, do you think there might eventually come a time when the government is so clearly out of control that states would be within their rights to peacefully withdraw from the Union? I'm not saying that time is here now, though I do think much of our Constitution has been trashed. But might there come a time when it's so trashed, that departure without consent would be justified?

In other words, are we, the citizenry and the states, obligated to stay in the Union as required by the Constitution, even if the federal government has long since stopped abiding by the Constitution?

211 posted on 04/17/2009 2:38:11 PM PDT by puroresu (Enjoy ASIAN CINEMA? See my Freeper page for recommendations (updated!).)
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To: AUH2O Repub
Treason in 1861, treason now. Try supporting the UNITED States of America.

May I never see you over open sights one day. That is if you will fight for Obama to keep Texas in.

212 posted on 04/17/2009 2:53:06 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (We either Free America ourselves, or it is midnight for humanity for a thousand years.)
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To: puroresu
In other words, are we, the citizenry and the states, obligated to stay in the Union as required by the Constitution, even if the federal government has long since stopped abiding by the Constitution?

If the federal government clearly isn't following the Constitution a case can be made for rebellion against its tyranny. I suppose that could be done nationally or by a state.

But if you have the vote and representatives in Congress and aren't being physically oppressed by the government, it's hard to make the case for rebellion stick.

In other words, the government would have to be truly repressive and tyrannical. It can't just be that somebody thinks that the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional.

If things go downhill, civil disobedience is probably a better place to start than threats of revolution or secession.

Before it comes down to tyranny and rebellion, there may be an attempt to dissolve the union.

I wouldn't want to see that happen, but if it's done at the federal level through Congress or a national convention it would have the legitimacy that unilateral state action wouldn't have.

213 posted on 04/17/2009 2:56:42 PM PDT by x
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To: Centurion2000; All
the STATISTS will be "whipped into a frenzy" by the FASCIST, "BHO the First", who will be told that the seceding states are treasonous, racist & "profit motivated".

look for AZ, CA,CO,NM,NV & WA to secede FIRST, to become Los Estados Unidos de Azatlan!!!

free dixie,sw

214 posted on 04/17/2009 2:59:02 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to TYRANTS is OBEDIENCE to God. T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: x
That's a pretty good answer, but I would disagree in part. It is possible for people in a society to have the vote and representation and not be physically oppressed, but still live in an intolerable situation.

We are watching before our very eyes the governments of many Western nations importing a new constituency, one that has no attachment to our historic civilization and (in the case of America) no particular fondness for the Constitution. This is being done by political elites who want unlimited power and who regard our traditional faiths and institutions as being passe relics that belong in the dustbins on history. They don't plan to kill us or imprison us, but to tax the hell out of us and use us as a Goldstein-like foil (as in 1984) to keep the non-white, feminist, homosexual, leftist, and other post-60s groups whipped into a constant hatred against us and our allegedly repressive institutions such as traditional marriage and the family.

Thus, at some point in the future, we'll be in a society where we're taxed like hell to support the 60% or so that keep the government in power, and are constantly (and I mean 24/7) berated by government, the educational establishment, the media and other outlets. We'll be constantly on the defensive as the government finds new "discrimination" on our part that needs redress. Reparations to feminist groups for not giving women the vote 800 years ago. New laws banning Bibles from hotel rooms since homophobic hate literature has no place in a business involved in interstate commerce and public accommodations. There will never be an end, as I've said before, because liberalism itself never ends. It exists to destroy that which sustains our civilization.

This is clearly already starting. So Gov. Perry is right, we may need at some point to peacefully withdraw and go our own way in the few remaining states that are pockets of free America as it once was.

215 posted on 04/17/2009 4:58:01 PM PDT by puroresu (Enjoy ASIAN CINEMA? See my Freeper page for recommendations (updated!).)
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To: puroresu; x

dustbins on history = dustbins of history! :-)


216 posted on 04/17/2009 5:01:23 PM PDT by puroresu (Enjoy ASIAN CINEMA? See my Freeper page for recommendations (updated!).)
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To: puroresu
Your analysis is spot on. Well thought out and clearly stated.

Well done.

217 posted on 04/17/2009 5:01:45 PM PDT by Czar ((Still Fed Up to the Teeth with Washington))
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To: Czar

Thanks!


218 posted on 04/17/2009 5:05:26 PM PDT by puroresu (Enjoy ASIAN CINEMA? See my Freeper page for recommendations (updated!).)
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To: Non-Sequitur
But it does give the government the power to suppress rebellion.

If that were true, the Constitution requires that the governor/legislature petition for assistance. As it was, even Congress refused to call out the militia when the states seceded, and they went so far as to REJECT a proposed amendment prohibiting secession. Face the facts, several states reserved the right to secede in their ratifications, and the framers REJECTED a motion to prevent secession by military force.

Article I, Section 10 and Article IV, Section 3.

I knew you couldn't, as nowhere does the Constitution prevent secession.

219 posted on 04/17/2009 5:16:31 PM PDT by 4CJ (Annoy a liberal, honour Christians and our gallant Confederate dead)
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To: Non-Sequitur
And an 1869 case that said they could not.

Dude, 1795 precedes 1861. 1869 is 8 years after the fact.

220 posted on 04/17/2009 5:18:17 PM PDT by 4CJ (Annoy a liberal, honour Christians and our gallant Confederate dead)
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