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Knights Templar hid the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican
Times Online ^
| 04/05/2009
| Richard Owen
Posted on 04/05/2009 12:20:47 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan
click here to read article
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To: aruanan
"You mean "from ~33 to 1204"? In Constantinople in the care of the Eastern Church? " I note your question.
Constantine's Mother St. Helena
Constantinople was founded by the Roman Emperor Constantine, beginning around 324 AD. In 325 AD Constantine sent his mother, Helena to Jerusalem where she found and returned with many relics, including the true cross, some nails and a tunic which was sent to Trier, and is still there.
Though several other relics are mentioned in these accounts, the shroud of Turin is not one of them.
61
posted on
04/05/2009 1:40:52 PM PDT
by
BroJoeK
(a little historical perspective...)
To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
Catholic Ping List Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list
62
posted on
04/05/2009 1:40:52 PM PDT
by
NYer
("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
To: nufsed
Where was the shroud from 1-1204? According to other documentation, history, and legend, the Shroud was taken in about 35 ADafter Jesus resurrectionby Thaddeus to King Abgar of Edessa to cure him of a skin affliction. It remained revered there as the Image of Edessa (a facial image only as the cloth was displayed, folded in a frame) until the city was taken by Iconoclastic Persians in the 4th Century. The cloth was walled up in the "Archway of Vaults" to protect it from destruction by the non-believers. It was left there, lost, until the 6th Century when it was found in the immured in a hidden vault in the City Gate when the gates were being repaired about 19 years after being damaged a flood in 525. As the Image of Edessathe Holy Mandylion it was brought to Constantinople to the Hagia Sophia on August 15, 944, as attested to by the Sermon of Gregory Referendarius, the Arch Deacon of the Hagia Sophia.
63
posted on
04/05/2009 1:42:35 PM PDT
by
Swordmaker
(Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
To: agere_contra
Ahh. I knew I had seen more to the story somewhere. Since Constantinople didn’t rise for a few hundred years after the Crucifixion, it didn’t make any sense for it to have gone straight there. Thanks.
64
posted on
04/05/2009 1:42:46 PM PDT
by
Desdemona
(Tolerance of grave evil is NOT a Christian virtue. http://www.thekingsmen.us/)
To: Swordmaker
Thank you. 57 was also informative.
65
posted on
04/05/2009 1:44:57 PM PDT
by
nufsed
(Release the birth certificate, passport and school records.)
To: aruanan
"You mean "from ~33 to 1204"? In Constantinople in the care of the Eastern Church? " I note your question.
Constantine's Mother St. Helena
Constantinople was founded by the Roman Emperor Constantine, beginning around 324 AD. In 325 AD Constantine sent his mother, Helena to Jerusalem where she found and returned with many relics, including the true cross, some nails and a tunic which was sent to Trier, and is still there.
Though several other relics are mentioned in these accounts, the shroud of Turin is not one of them.
66
posted on
04/05/2009 1:46:14 PM PDT
by
BroJoeK
(a little historical perspective...)
To: Star Traveler
I saw a program where one of the scientists who claimed it was fake through the carbon dating was later convinced to study more evidence and while he wouldn’t say that the shroud is genuine, he did admit that the carbon dating was done on the patch and he documented it right before he died.
67
posted on
04/05/2009 1:46:26 PM PDT
by
tiki
(True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
To: mountainlion
Think that the king will kill hundreds of bankers? Think that Phillip the Fair was hard pressed for money, having expended his royal treasury on wars, and was desperate for cash. The Knights Templar WERE bankers with whom one could place cash and valuables and be assured of their safety. In addition, cash deposited in France, could be withdrawn in Italy, when the Knights in Italy were presented with a letter from the French Knights. The Knights had LOTS of valuables. King Phillip wanted it. He got it.
68
posted on
04/05/2009 1:47:48 PM PDT
by
Swordmaker
(Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
To: Kansas58
So now we know. The pope ordered the king of France to extrminated the Templars for their money and the shroud
69
posted on
04/05/2009 1:48:44 PM PDT
by
bert
(K.E. N.P. +12 . John Galt hell !...... where is Francisco dÂ’Anconia)
To: Kansas58; BuckeyeTexan
70
posted on
04/05/2009 1:49:07 PM PDT
by
NYer
("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
To: Always Right
I was being facetious. I know, but thought if deserved a response for those who don't know.
Thanks for the opportunity.
71
posted on
04/05/2009 1:51:20 PM PDT
by
Swordmaker
(Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
To: Swordmaker
“it was brought to Constantinople to the Hagia Sophia on August 15, 944, as attested to by the Sermon of Gregory Referendarius, the Arch Deacon of the Hagia Sophia.”
How old IS that church?
72
posted on
04/05/2009 1:51:22 PM PDT
by
patton
(I hope that they fight to the death and both sides win.)
To: Mercat
6 in my time zone.
Unless we know what time zone you are in, how does that help us?
73
posted on
04/05/2009 1:53:14 PM PDT
by
GLDNGUN
To: Desdemona
Then, Obama told the bankers, I am the only thing between you and the pitchforks I hadn't heard this quote from 0bama before but just the other day we were at a rate hike meeting before the Public Services board and one of the lawyer type guys was telling us how they were looking at structuring the rate so that heavy users and business paid more and when we asked how they could justify that anti-business, anti-wealth stance his example was that if 10 big businesses were angry it was a lot less scary than 450K people coming at you with pitchforks. I guess he has the talking points.
74
posted on
04/05/2009 1:54:42 PM PDT
by
tiki
(True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
To: NYer
Well, thanks for the info. It is good to know.
However, it is not fair to lump the Templars in with “other break away Christian groups”
The Templars were not perfect, but they were in Union with Rome and certainly were not heretics, as claimed by the King of France.
There are groups of self proclaimed “Templar survivors” who, apparently, do not think the apology went far enough.
75
posted on
04/05/2009 1:55:17 PM PDT
by
Kansas58
To: Swordmaker
Nevermind -
“The current building was originally constructed as a church between A.D. 532 and 537 on the orders of the Byzantine Emperor Justinian, and was in fact the third Church of the Holy Wisdom to occupy the site (the previous two had both been destroyed by riots). It was designed by two architects, Isidore of Miletus and Anthemius of Tralles. “
76
posted on
04/05/2009 1:56:06 PM PDT
by
patton
(I hope that they fight to the death and both sides win.)
To: bert
Actually, the Pope was rather weak at the time.
The King of France did as he pleased, and the Pope could not stop him.
77
posted on
04/05/2009 1:56:09 PM PDT
by
Kansas58
To: patton
How old IS that church? Pretty old.
"The current building was originally constructed as a church between A.D. 532 and 537 on the orders of the Byzantine Emperor Justinian, and was in fact the third Church of the Holy Wisdom to occupy the site (the previous two had both been destroyed by riots). . . The first church of Hagia Sophia was inaugurated by Constantius II on 15 February 360."
78
posted on
04/05/2009 1:58:31 PM PDT
by
Swordmaker
(Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
To: nufsed
The Mandylion, bearing the Image of Edessa, arrived in Constantinople 15th August 944 (Julian dating I presume) and its arrival was celebrated by a sermon from the Archdeacon of Hagia Sophia, which has recently be rediscovered (as a copy dating from the eleventh century and
translated. Prior to that it had been in Edessa. Check out the
Wiki for more on its past prior to that. If the carbon dating issue can be overcome then it only takes a small leap of faith - smaller with this new information - to say the current Shroud is the same as the known historical icon, the Mandylion. To associate that with the burial cloth of a resurrected Christ requires a larger leap of faith, but much the same one required to really be Christian.
To: Swordmaker
80
posted on
04/05/2009 2:05:24 PM PDT
by
patton
(I hope that they fight to the death and both sides win.)
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