Posted on 03/01/2009 8:22:44 AM PST by STARWISE
I think it’s always best to not press for the truth. It might expose one as a birther. You just move along and we’ll do your heavy lifting.
I agree.
“This is ridiculous. The REPUBLICAN Governor of the state and the Lt. Governor (the de facto HI Secretary of State) have both said that the Obama Hawaiian birth certificate is LEGITIMATE.” You are purposely dissembling ... you’re a liar. Lingle has not claimed to have seen what is on the vault copy. If she had, she would be in violation of Privacy laws. YOU are a LIAR. But then the obamanoids must lie to cover for their little affirmative action god.
FACT:
Obama’s lawyers have argued in court documents:
....revealing these documents raises a “legitimate privacy concern” and the above mentioned risk that “particularly serious embarrassment will result from turning over the requested documentation.”
http://israelinsider.ning.com/profiles/blogs/2018399:BlogPost:10858
If Obama was not born in Hawaii and the relevant officials of that state are aware of this, then how do you explain that he was allowed to run on the state ballot?
You want to watch a racist MO? Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHzYl8Rg8C0&feature=related
For the Obamas and their Socialist buddies, the only kind of racism that exists in America is white racism. apparently, blacks cannt be racist because they are black.
BULL
you are making stuff up.
There is no right or duty or authority for ANY election official, in ANY state, to take a peak at private birth records.
You make yourself look very stupid, with that post.
Let's for a moment indulge this line of questioning. Let's stipulate that the "ORIGINAL LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE" indeed indicates that it was NOT a hospital birth. Let's also stipulate that it was not witnessed by a Doctor or other medical personnel and that the only witnesses are the grand parents. Then what?
The burden of proof in a civil court case is not on the respondent, but on the petitioner. Barry doesn't need to "prove" that he was born in HI, but the petitioner needs to prove that he wasn't. Furthermore, the case law is clearly on Barry's side as the copy Obama has provided is well-recognized prima fascia evidence of origin of birth.
Inconsistencies in Barry's biographical story or birth documentation wouldn't be proof of anything with respect to where he was actually born. You might be able to prove he's a liar, but you probably can't prove that his mother and grand parents are liars - And that's the material question, did Barack Obama's mother and Grand Parents lie about where he was actually born. Since you can't question any of them, and clearly nothing but circumstantial (and questionably circumstantial evidence at that) exist to DIRECTLY contradict Obama's story. So, all that is accomplished is the MSM is given substantial ammunition to paint ALL conservative as conspiracy theorists nutbags.
Big_monkey hasn't replied to my request for the same link, in post #62 either.
See post 178, then go pick up some more tinfoil. You’re going to need it.
This statement is a “straw man:” The issue is whether BHO is, in fact, a “NATURAL BORN citizen,” as REQUIRED by the constitution.
To me, it is informative that (as far as I know) whoever is defending Obama, in the various suits filed, are arguing “standing,” etc. They do not seem to be defending the TRUTH of Obama’s claim or presumption that he actually IS a Natural Born Citizen. A fully authenticated, official replica of his birth certificate would, if it actually exists, render these cases moot.
Just as it was with John Kerry's Military records, which he refused to release, one can only assume that the official record must contain something substantially MORE damaging than the controversy itself.
DG
“Furthermore, the case law is clearly on Barry’s side as the copy Obama has provided is well-recognized prima fascia evidence of origin of birth.”
LOL you are wrong.
Have you no shame?? You have a right to your opinion, but you are just making stuff up now.
Obama has not documented his place of birth, in any shape matter or form. He has only documented that he had parents who lived, for a time, in Hawaii.
You were saying to “Canedawg” — “Thanks for stepping up to the plate. Yep..Star-Traveller is an agitator on BC threads....so you probably were confusing him/her with Starwise.”
Well, as it turns out, on this thread alone, there are all these “stars”.... STARWISE, EveningStar, LoneStarC; Star Traveler...
So, to clarify the position here, and — *especially* — in reference to this comment, Post #106 — “Wait just a minute here..ok? Starwise has been one of those questioning Obama’s BC from the beginning!”
Let me say (and I have said it before), that I had been questioning Obama’s qualifications, too (per the Constitution) and asking for the documentation, since prior to the election (easily checked out by seeing my posts prior to the election). The problem there, is that, apparently, about 69,456,897 Obama voters didn’t care and outvoted me (and others; almost 10 million more than for McCain).
And then, after that, I saw that some of those who had been complaining about the documentation, along with me, were now (after the election) saying that Obama would be stopped, because of this issue (i.e., “no documentation”). However, when I watched and waited — *nothing happened*.
I waited while I was told (by some here) that a court would invalidate this state or that state’s ballot or Electoral College vote. Then I was told that the Electoral College, itself, would not vote for Obama (or some would not, anyway). Next I was told a court would invalidate the election. And then I was told that a court would require Obama to produce the documentation. After that, I was told that even though some court cases failed to work, there were enough coming up that one of them would work. Then I was told that there would be an injunction preventing the Electoral College vote from counting. Another was that I was told that a court would give an injunction to prevent Obama from taking office. Then I heard that the Congress would question the lack of documentation when certifying the Electoral College vote (at least someone would, and that would be “it”). Then I heard the Vice President Cheney would certainly bring up the issue. Next I heard that the Supreme Court invited Obama over to “talk to him” about his documentation, and to serve him warning that he wouldn’t get into office without it. I heard next that the Chief Justice would not give the oath of office, to the incoming President, because of no documentation.
After all that was told to me, I then started hearing that — simply — one court and one judge, somewhere, could issue an order to Obama to vacate the office of President of the United States, and it would order a US Marshall to escort Obama out of the White House. Short of that happening, I have also been told that the U.S. Military will surround the White House with tanks and order Obama out of office, because they know it’s illegal for them to take orders from him, since “he is not really the President”...
Now, these last two items, there are posts that keep coming up almost every day to this effect. I know that I read on one of these threads, just today, that these last two options were viable and were going to happen.
THEREFORE — after hearing all this and seeing that nothing was working, and also after seeing that the conservatives *themselves* had “identified” a malady — called “Obama Derangement Syndrome” — I realized that this was what I had been hearing from, all this time.
So, the *real life solution* was simply to have states enact laws to properly vet a candidate and require the specific documentation required. Oklahoma and Arizona have started that already.
For those who may not know that “Obama Derangement Syndrome” has been identified and named by others (and is the source of articles, nationally)..., you can see the following...
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/avoiding-the-clutches-of-obama-derangement-syndrome/
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjQyOTgxM2M0YWMxOTdhZDcwMzlmMDU1ZGYxNzFkMmQ=
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16306.html
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=obama%20derangement%20syndrome
—
Thus, this is what I’ve been posting, that there are some *mighty strange derangements* in the “thinking” of some that I see posted here and they bear *no resemblance* to reality. I can see that all that those had posted before — has not worked. And so I started working with my own legislature, in this state (Oklahoma) to get that legislation through, and it is currently winding its way through the Oklahoma Legislature.
The amazing thing — is that many of those who totally oppose Obama being in office — *do not want to support* this legislation, as they say it’s a diversion or it won’t do anything or something along that line of thought.
It’s amazing because “this legislation” will probably be the *only thing* that will work... LOL...
I agree with you.
Legislation, at the state level, to require such documentation, WILL hurt Obama in the long run, more than any court case now pending.
Have you no shame?? You have a right to your opinion, but you are just making stuff up now.
I'm making up that a certified copy of a birth certificate is well-recognized prima fascia evidence of origin of birth?
In every courtroom, in every city, county, state and federal court that is 100% correct. If you don't understand that VERY SIMPLE concept, then there's no hope.
When the person in the state of HI, who's job it is to verify documents like the one in question, comes out and says it's authenticate, I've seen it and I'm authenticating it, isn't good enough, then nothing ever will be.
I do seem to remember you or someone discussing the states remedy to this stuff in the future and it’s a grand idea. If Obama is not going to be litigated to show his birth certificate after the fact..our only other solution is to be ready when he tries to run again in 2012.
I say we do both though. The thing about Obama, is that he is clearly hiding something in his long form birth certificate. What-ever it is..it needs to be exposed. The man lies with abandon and he is lying about his birth certificate too.
As usual, this article completely ignores the actual issues. Unfortunately, many people on this thread seem to also not understand the actual issues. The document released by the Obama campaign was not supposed to be a birth certificate, but a certificate of live birth (not the same thing) issued as a copy. The dubious points of this certificate were his race, the blacking out of a number, and the apparent lack of a seal. This certificate satisfied the drooling masses, but its release prompted, among people with perhaps a keener eye, many more questions.
Since the biggest part of the Natural Born Citizen debate sprung from questions raised over the COLB, the strongest evidence to date that Obama is hiding something is his refusal to release any information that would have put this debate to rest. It’s not that he’s spent millions defending against this - indeed, to my recollection most courts have dismissed this without letting it actually proceed to trial. I can’t think of one, off hand, that actually got off the ground.
Obama’s grandmother says he was born in Kenya. There’s a shrine in Kenya designating his birthplace. This is subjective information. The one thing we do, actually, factually know is that Obama has not allowed any information that could identify his citizenship (school records, birth records) to be made public. There is no reason not to do this, except two. 1) The obvious: to conceal something he’d rather not be made public. 2) The sneaky: To lead people to believe he’s concealing something.
Which it is, at this point, who knows. But there seems to be a great amount of confusion to what’s been going on here, and that doesn’t help us seem like a group of people who can be taken credibly. That would seem to fulfill the requirements of Reason #2 given above.
I believe, based on his failure to prove otherwise, that Obama is not qualified to be president of the United States. But I’m one of the “kooks” - I go futher. I believe he WAS, at one time, a muslim even if only because his step-father insisted he be. Whether he converted or not is irrelevant - he claims never to have been a muslim. I likewise consider it probable that, the Kenyan issue not even entering into the equation, he was a citizen of Indonesia when he registered for school there. I also believe he will never be called on it, will get away with it, and that ultimately, unfortunately, pushing the issue weakens the case against him.
We fought to have this addressed in the primaries and before the election. We failed. Unless something happens to blow the lid off this, we will continue to be seen as wackos/racists/radicals etc. etc. Most Americans simply do not understand the difference between an American citizen and a Natural Born American citizen. And cannot, or will not, accept that there is a difference.
For most people: his mother was an American citizen. End of story. Try to explain otherwise and their eyes glaze over. They see the Natural Born issues as technicalities. And I suppose they are - but what is interpretation of the law if not technicalities? If we’re only to enforce some of the laws, how do we decide which ones, and who to make exceptions for?
Maybe Obama really is a natural born citizen. Maybe his grandmother is a liar and he’s kept his records secret just for fun and his citizenship was never changed during his time spent in Indonesia. The truth is we’ll probably never know.
This has essentially set a precedent for anyone to be elected president simply by refusing to provide relevant information.
Exposing the socialist policies of this administration isn’t doing the heavy lifting? Please...
Good point.
Instead, just ignore the birthers and spend your precious time exposing the socialist policies that are going to have life-long consequences for every American alive today.
Yes, I'm doing that. I'm working on an Oped on bank bailouts right now. That's why I haven't been posting here for a while. You are correct that posting on FR is probably not the wisest use of my time. Peace out...
You’re saying that the State of Hawaii is totally incapable of verifying the eligibility of someone whose birth certificate was issued by that very state?
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