I have no idea what you just said, so here's an astronaut with pancakes instead of a head:
Posted on 01/13/2009 10:41:37 AM PST by Red Badger
I have no idea what you just said, so here's an astronaut with pancakes instead of a head:
What Toyota funds the DNC-never would have guessed it? See my post from a neutral site regarding Toyota quality issues...if you are interested in facts which you don’t appear to be interested in anything but your own uninformed opinion ie a form of faith:all foreign good, all American bad.
People who hold stock in Toyota would be well advised to sell and sell fast.
I don’t blame the customer...I think people should buy what they want I give you your Sentra and raise you a Lumina which went over 300,000 miles until dear daughter put oil in the gas tank instead of where the oil goes and blew up the engine sigh.
I just don’t think foreign cars should be made cheaper than domestics because of unfair trade policies...fix trade so it’s fair to all and let the customer decide.
As for Toyota and even Honda quality, it’s slipping they are riding on their good reputation...this won’t last forever. My friend who works for Toyota said they are blaming it on the American workers;they have been lectured repeatedly about quality while the parts that come from overseas are crap. They have seriously weakened the quality departments in order to save money, and it shows. Also, American engineers warned Toyota about the Tundra issues and were told to shut up and sit down. The tailgate issue in particular is a truly rookie mistake. One would not expect Toyota to make such a mistake. In my favorite movie...the Patriot...there is a discussion of how to beat Cornwallis- a military genius...it comes down to arrogance. Toyota is arrogant. If you see how they are handling the transmission issues, this is clear. So while I would prefer stupidity in the Japanese, I’ll settle for arrogance. We will beat them at their own game eventually.
Thanks for the interesting discussion. I did enjoy it. LOL
Too bad you can’t beat them without a bailout. Too bad it took the Detroit 3 decades to learn they actually needed to make products that don’t suck. Too bad they repeatedly bet the farm on gas hogs only to see gas prices go up and not have the vehicles people wanted.
The fact is the Detroit 3 screwed their own pooch, long, hard and repeatedly, they earned their bad reputation the old fashioned way, and this bailout is one of the biggest mistakes in the history of government.
There were mistakes no doubt...but trade and benefit problems hurt the big three...you know Japan has national health care and offers government pensions? The transplant health care is subsidized by Japan. This has to be fixed one way or the other.
Again, it’s a loan not a bail out...it’s not like the money dumped down the sewers of AIG or Citi who may still fail. As for gas hogs, do you know which products are selling the best in all of GM? SUV’s. Texas, will probably be on overtime after the shutdown. When gas is cheap, Americans buy big. It seems one should consider the market it any business.
As for betting the farm on gas hogs. Have you watched any news reports about the Auto show? The new show cars are electric or hybrids. These take years to develop so it’s not like they decided to make these cars in November and poof here they are. They got caught in the economic tsunami. There are good products in the pipeline. However, if gas remains cheap Americans will buy big because they like big. We will making the Cruze in my plant...great mid sized car which gets really good gas mileage. It’s a pretty car and should sell well.
As for the reputation. GM messed up in the 70’s for sure. However, this was thirty years ago. Toyota who should know better is messing up big time right now. I would consider this before buying a car. As for the biggest mistake, the LOAN saved between 3-5 million jobs and perhaps saved us from a depression so I disagree. It has to be paid back and was a mere drop in the bucket when one considers the financial bailout. I believe the auto industry is important to this country in terms of national security and prosperity. If I was fired tomorrow (which could happen), I would still believe this. The service economy sucks and always will, we need manufacturing in this country.
Other countries’ encroaching socialism does not excuse doing it to ourselves.
It’s a BAILOUT structured as a loan. Just because they intend to pay it back doesn’t change the FACT that it’s unearned money doled out by the government AGAINST the people’s wishes. BAILOUT. Calling it anything else is a lie. NO BAILOUTS EVER!
Do you know which products GM makes the most of, spends the most advertising, and focused their business on? SUVs. They moved away from the car market, they focused both development and advertising on gas hogs. Then the price of gas went up their short sightedness bit them in the ass. Again. They made the exact same stupid move in the 70s, with the exact same results.
Yeah NOW they’re working on electrics and hybrids, where was that effort before? Remember GM once led that market (EV1) then FLED that market, and now they’re crawling back late to the game. GM was in trouble LONG before the economy tanked, blaming the economy is just as big a lie as not calling it a bailout.
GM messed up in the 70s, kept producing crap all the way through the 80s and through part of the 90s. It’s only been in the last 10 to 15 years they (and Ford and Chrysler) have been consistently making good cars. They let an entire generation grow up with their American cars being in the shop more often than on the road. They earned their reputation.
This BAILOUT ( STOP THE LIES, the “loan” is BAILOUT, a stupid waste of MY TAX MONEY) hasn’t saved anything yet. Last week GM was saying they need more money. Of course the week before that they said things were going well. Can’t believe a word they say.
The financial bailout was just as stupid and wrong. Once again your using other stupidity to excuse continued stupidity. ALL BAILOUT (even supposed “loans”) ARE WRONG. Period. Not negotiable. It’s the path to socialism. It’s evil. GM should have gone bankruptcy, 11 if possible, 7 if necessary. Instead all their woes continue, only now with my tax money in a BAILOUT.
We HAVE manufacturing in this country. 14.4% of the largest GDP on the planet. Again you spread LIES. STOP THE LIES.
I’ve owned three Rangers, that last one up until about three years ago.
I roughhoused every one of them, overloaded them, and drove them till they dropped. They performed magnificently. All of them had well over 150,000 miles on them when I got rid of them, and one had over 320,000 miles on it and was still going strong when I sold it.
While they may not win any beauty contests, they do run like hell, are reliable and last almost forever.
That’s what counts.
Free land and training money are bailouts and wrong. Tax breaks are not bailouts the are reductions of taking.
At least you got something right, transferring my tax money to ANY business is a BAILOUT, even if they call it a loan. Stop defending socialism.
No, I like my nice Texas-made Tundras.
He can’t - he’s already admitted he’s a UAW shill.
My condolences...the trannies are crap and the tailgates will fall of...but other than that, you still have a ...loser. By the by,GM makes SUV’s in Texas.
Banks make loans that must be repaid every day...it’s called capitalism.
Yes when BANKS lend THEIR money (well money freely given to them by customers) and that’s capitalism.
When the GOVERNMENT “lends” MY money that’s called socialism.
Look, I was perhaps a bit impatient before...they didn’t start working on hybrids yesterday. It takes years to get a car to market...you can’t turn on a dime. The fact that the auto show is full of hybrids, electric cars etc clearly demonstrates they have been working on it for quite a while.
But they had the lead in the field with EV1 and walked away. They gave up their lead, now that gas is the cheapest it’s been in 4 years they’re ready to be the last to market. And they should be able to turn on a dime, they’ve got lots of different factories all over the world, many different sub-companies, when oil prices started climbing in 2004 they should have been able to adjust.
They walked away for the same reason the Prius plant won’t be built...market. There was no market at the time...They obviously reconsidered because they now have some really nice cars coming...I want the Surge. The nice thing about these cars is they do not have to be plugged in...a very small engine recharges the battery. This is good for the electrical grid which needs serious updating and the pocket book. Those plug in batteries cost 1000’s to replace.
They are not the last to market either...except for the Prius which was a cult car and did not sell well. Insiders know that Japan did all the R&D on the Prius...they deny it, but we know the truth. Thus Toyota could put out a car that would not sell particularly well and cost a fortune to manufacture. GM did not have the luxury of a government subsidy. They began a serious turn to gas economy in late 2003...we have hybrid Tahoes for example among others. GM cars get great gas mileage in general and they beat the foreign cars at this...have to because of Cafe. GM has incredible battery technology and will build the plant to produce these batteries in the US...they may very well supply the competition-including the transplants. Wouldn’t that be a hoot.
Well since the government gives my money to foreign transplants and the entire state of Alabama...all southern states except Georgia get more back then they pay in taxes, I guess there is a great deal of socialism going around. Your money was loaned...the government loans money all the time ie small business government loans.
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