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I cannot believe his drivel. This is Marxism meets Christianity. I'll let others rebut this moron.
1 posted on 01/02/2009 11:02:52 PM PST by AlaskaErik
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To: AlaskaErik

He makes some perfectly valid points about selfishness and the danger of going to Hell.

The final remarks about income “inequities” and tax cuts have NOTHING to do with the valid moral points that precede it. There is NOTHING about high tax rates or compulsory income limits that in any way responds to the teaching of Jesus.

This is a man who knows something about the Gospel, and NOTHING about economics.


2 posted on 01/02/2009 11:08:16 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: AlaskaErik

“Liberation theology” is neither.


3 posted on 01/02/2009 11:08:51 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: AlaskaErik

Blech.


4 posted on 01/02/2009 11:09:38 PM PST by NinoFan
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To: AlaskaErik

So many Christians confuse two issues:

They think that just because is is right to help the poor that it must be OK to force people to help the poor.

They try to force a “win/win” situation. In reality it is a lose/lose situation.

The giver resents the receiver because he is forced to give the aid. The receiver hates the giver because he knows the the giver is only helping because he is forced.

Only hatred and resentment are created through Government redistribution. Not Christian at all. Nation becomes less Cheistian as a result.


5 posted on 01/02/2009 11:16:19 PM PST by GreyMountainReagan (Liberals really intend to increase the misery through their actions. Gives them power)
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To: AlaskaErik
“it is not easy for preachers to tell their wealthiest members that they are going to hell.”

Yes. Especially since it would be a lie.

There are several parts of this screed which are factual and common sensical. Then there are other parts which could simply be summed up as, “socialism, now, comrades”.

Jesus was not a Socialist. Successful people don't go to hell for creating wealth. In fact, I seem to recall that a lot of Christians believe that the steps for achieving eternal life (Heaven) are: 1. Accept Christ. 2. Be Baptized. 3. Repent. No catch-22. No other requirements. Some people think that is too easy, so they try to make up other rules, such as “give away all your money to the poor, but only if we consider you rich, of course.”

6 posted on 01/02/2009 11:19:16 PM PST by ChicagahAl (So your bumper sticker says: "Don't blame me, I didn't vote!"? Duh!)
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To: AlaskaErik

“Thou shalt not steal.”

Seems to me that Christians are sinning if they use the state to steal from others.


8 posted on 01/02/2009 11:51:18 PM PST by mc6809e
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To: AlaskaErik
He also made a mistake saying Jesus was killed for His “cleaning out” the moneychangers. He was killed as a direct result of raising the dead and claiming Deity. The moneychangers were cleaned out of His Father's house because they were “leaven” and before Passover, you clean out the leaven from your house.

This sounds like a Jesuit spouting his Marxism.

9 posted on 01/03/2009 12:08:27 AM PST by chuckles
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To: AlaskaErik

You can search the words of Christ in vain looking for an economic theory. You won’t find any instructions to raise or lower taxes, to promote business or regulate commerce. It just isn’t there; and thinking it should be merely shows a lack of understanding about the entire purpose of Scripture.


11 posted on 01/03/2009 12:27:38 AM PST by eclecticEel (In short, I want Obama given the same respect and deference that Democrats have given George Bush)
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To: AlaskaErik
“Our churches are an embarrassment to Jesus.”

He furnishes an example of why this might be so.

“On issues of economics and wealth, our pulpits are and will remain silent.”

Perhaps they should be if they share his misunderstanding of the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Hint: It had to do with spiritual condition and the reversal of that condition not CEO pay.

“The rich and powerful assassinated Jesus for speaking out.”

He tiptoes past saying it was the religious leaders that feared Jesus’ message. Too P.C. I guess. Note the following,
The CHIEF PRIESTS and PHARISEES said,

“If we let him alone this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.” (John 11:48)
The Romans came, but not because of Jesus’ message.

“Just now it is not easy for preachers to tell their wealthiest members that they are going to hell.”

He means they hesitate to lie? It was the LOVE of money that was the root of all evil, not the money. Just being wealthy is not a sin or Solomon would have been the greatest of all sinners.

He is supposed to be a “pastor emeritus”, and he does not understand even these simple things? Amazing! and sad.

12 posted on 01/03/2009 12:34:09 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: AlaskaErik
While I may not like HOW the author said what he did, the fact is, Jesus spoke more about money than love in the Bible. In fact, there are more references to money and how to handle it than anything else, including LOVE in the Bible.

Jesus' own teachings on money include the following: The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

Matthew 25:39-41 (in Context) Matthew 25 (Whole Chapter)

16 posted on 01/03/2009 2:16:27 AM PST by usconservative (My Plan For Government Reform: Hangings on Thursday, Trials on Friday.)
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To: AlaskaErik
Christ was talking to the Pharisees.... regarding their traditions Luke 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided Him.

Luke 16:15 And He said unto them, “Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

verse 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man pressseth into it.

verse 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Lazarus and the ‘rich’ man was not a parable but Christ exposing the Pharisees’ traditions concerning the dead.

Abraham had died and is in heaven and when Lazarus dies he even as a poor beggar goes to be comforted in Abraham's bosom. But the ‘rich’ guy (representing the traditions of the Pharisees) dies and is buried but could see afar off Abraham and Lazarus....

The ‘rich’ guy calls out to ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’

Abraham answers the rich guy reminds him of his ‘flesh’ life and Lazarus and then says in heaven there is a gulf (chasm) that is impossible to pass. Abraham is not giving financial advice to the ‘rich’ guy but Christ is instructing the Pharisees where they are going to end up because .... verse 31 And he (Abraham) said unto him, ‘If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.’”

Some of these Reverends need to get real jobs and stop passing the plate pretending to be Lazarus.

17 posted on 01/03/2009 3:22:36 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Isa.3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.)
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To: AlaskaErik

They have become rich at the expense of the poor.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Pure Marxist drivel. Dangerous drivel!!!

If the wealth is honestly created, that wealth represents increased health, security, comfort, and sometimes just pure fun for everyone in society ( including the poor!) Wealth that is honestly generated provides jobs which keep people from being poor.

By the way, Jesus preached about **personal** charity. There NO example of Jesus proposing that the Roman guards take money from the rich to give to the poor.


23 posted on 01/03/2009 5:30:54 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: AlaskaErik
Ratios between the wages of workers and executives were considered.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I wonder if this dufus of a writer would rather have 50% of $10 or 1% of $100,000,000?

Only someone who is guilty of breaking the Tenth Commandment ( envy of your neighbor's goods) would be worried about the income gap between the poor and the rich.

When wealth is honestly created the BIGGER the gap the better off ALL will be!

24 posted on 01/03/2009 5:35:08 AM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: AlaskaErik
This author makes some good initial points but fails to follow his thinking to it's logical conclusion. 10 years ago I embarked on a conscious, intellectual pathway to become a Christian in my mid 40’s. In my reading of the Bible I encountered a “Christian Economics” that I have always felt should be elaborated on by a Theology expert but have found none. As Christians we have an obligation to care for our brother. In the U.S. we have agreed to cede this obligation to the gummint which while practically may be possible, such “charity” is not voluntary but rather increased taxes which do nothing to meet our real obligation and damage the recipients of such “charity”. Our churches have let the IRS blackmail them into silence on this point. Our pastors our happy to continue to get their ten percent without commenting on the fact that our tithes have become burdensome in light of the 50% level of taxation we face. Inflationary growth of our economy has allowed this spiral to continue until recently. What is needed at this time is for our Christian leaders to pry themselves away from the government and to begin to insist that the resources that should be going to real charity actually do so. Unfortunately our leaders will never risk the loss of their tax exempt status so they continue to succumb to the IRS blackmail. These facts have become clearer and clearer to me over the last ten years and it is painfully clear what should be done but won't be.

Then I recall His words and remember that what I propose is sinful in itself as I suggest we can turn our society and economy around. Only He can do that and our faith needs to be in Him. If we face hardship it is because that is what He requires of us at this time. Many may come to Faith as a result of the terrible times ahead and THAT is what is important, not our society receiving the Blessings of Liberty through Grace. We must look to the fruit of the coming time.

25 posted on 01/03/2009 5:39:39 AM PST by wastoute
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To: AlaskaErik

“As I understand the teachings of Jesus, he believed that none of us own anything. Everything belongs to God. The wealth we privately hold is held in trust.”

This is proven beyond a doubt when we die. It all gets left here for somebody else.

The big difference between this and Marxism is that the first century believers VOLUNTARILY held all things in common. No one required of anybody that they give their wealth to the church. Marxism robs the rich to give to the state. Maybe there’ll be something left over for the poor and maybe there won’t, but the commissars will enlarge their dachas.

He is right in that today’s churches all to often are self-perpetuating and self aggrandizing. Scripture is even misapplied out of context to bind people to the local congregations. “Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together” doesn’t imply a steeplehouse and stained glass windows. Misplacing “the sanctuary” is another. The sanctuary of Christ is the believer’s heart.

Don’t jump on the guy for pointing out what we’re doing wrong.


26 posted on 01/03/2009 5:40:12 AM PST by RoadTest (The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? - Jer.17:9)
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To: AlaskaErik

......They have become rich at the expense of the poor. .....

The problem is the poor, not the rich. The poor are not exerting themselves adequately. The poor need to work more to decrease the gap.


27 posted on 01/03/2009 5:42:05 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Save America......... put out lots of wafarin (it's working))
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To: AlaskaErik

American Baptist’s are members of National Council of Churches. They are leftists.


30 posted on 01/03/2009 5:50:00 AM PST by mrbillwilson
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To: AlaskaErik
“Jesus died for our sins” might be an acceptable theological statement, but it is fraud as a statement about how and why he was martyred.

And the guy who wrote this is a pastor?

Jesus did not challenge the economics (consider the Parable of the Talents) or politics of the time (consider Render Unto Caesar).

The only thing he challenged was our sinful natures. The powers-that-were in Jerusalem didn't think of themselves as having sinful natures.

I certainly have a sinful nature and need my Saviour.

I wonder if Mr. Bess thinks he and his fellow Dems have sinful natures. Does he think that if one has the right politics, one doesn't?

31 posted on 01/03/2009 5:59:21 AM PST by Tribune7 (Obama wants to put the same crowd that ran Fannie Mae in charge of health care)
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To: AlaskaErik
Christian pulpits are silent about almost every critical social issue>

Nonsense. Christian churches speak out against abortion regularly.

Rich people who fail in matters of generosity are going to hell. That is what Jesus taught.

No. Jesus taught that those who reject him as the Son of God will go to hell.

In our recent history, we have made it easier for people to become rich.

Nonsense. Tax policies make it harder and harder for Joe the Plumber to break out of the ranks of the wage slaves and into financial independence.

They have become rich at the expense of the poor.

Which poor? The ones driving cars or the ones with big screen TVs?

America is not a Christian nation. America was never intended to be a Christian nation.

The enemies of our nation never get tired of telling that lie!

32 posted on 01/03/2009 5:59:43 AM PST by BenLurkin
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To: AlaskaErik

Giving is an attitude of the heart. God loves a cheerful giver, and it is easy to see why. A willing, cheerful giver sees what needs to be done, and is happy to give his money, time and efforts to God’s service. “Giving” through higher taxes breeds waste and resentment. Why should anyone help the poor when there is welfare? “They get a government check, then why should I help” is the attitude many have.


35 posted on 01/03/2009 6:07:13 AM PST by yawningotter
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