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1 posted on 01/01/2009 6:29:22 PM PST by CE2949BB
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To: CE2949BB

Trying to bring democratic and representative reform to these nations is not a mistake. President Bush has also done alot to go after and kill thse who believe in the ideology of terrorism and dictatorship.

Both approaches must be going on simultaineously to win this war. At times this approach will work and at times it will also fail but it still must be done.


2 posted on 01/01/2009 6:33:52 PM PST by TheBigIf
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To: CE2949BB

The Palestinians are waxing poetic about the good old days when Israelis controlled Gaza.


3 posted on 01/01/2009 6:36:22 PM PST by bukkdems (Jihad is a ruse that culls men, to smooth the way for Muslim polygamy.)
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To: CE2949BB

This report is garbage. Hamas and Sheikh Yassin have had legitimacy in the eyes of Gazans for a number of reasons including their support for the intifadah, the construction of clinics, their control of the education institutions in Gaza, and their opposition to the PLA support for the Oslo Accords. It is not up to the USA to wipe out Hamas and Hizbollah. Israel must take the lead on that score , and it is clear that the extirpation of both is not presently feasible.


4 posted on 01/01/2009 6:37:18 PM PST by Melchior
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To: CE2949BB

There’s no point in elections if terrorists win them.


6 posted on 01/01/2009 6:40:13 PM PST by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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To: CE2949BB

At first I was ready to get all angry based on the title, but then I realized that this is really a criticism of us not being hardline enough. I agree. While we have no right to tell someone they can’t worship Allah, I have this huge worry about Islamic fascism getting a significant foothold in the civilized world. It must be crushed NOW. It deserves no respect.


8 posted on 01/01/2009 6:40:45 PM PST by NinoFan
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To: CE2949BB

The Law of Unintended Consequences, but the initial reactions are not always the same as the longer term results.


9 posted on 01/01/2009 6:45:10 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: CE2949BB

Oh, come on. Bush is a blithering idiot, period.


10 posted on 01/01/2009 6:46:59 PM PST by Carl from Marietta
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To: CE2949BB
Wow, he summed the entire history on conflict in the middle east into 1 brain fart so lacking in substance and short of inspiration that I almost missed the "Bush Did It" theme.

How long has this guy been out of work, anyway - just get out of the slammer, maybe?

13 posted on 01/01/2009 6:52:33 PM PST by 4woodenboats
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To: CE2949BB

Why, oh why, didn’t we have to “try to bring democracy” to Eastern European nations? Duh, and duh! Democracy in Arabia? What a laugh! The West never learns. Zimbabwe and the rest of Africa are such a smashing post-colonial success, ain’t they! Just like democracy in Detroit.


15 posted on 01/01/2009 6:53:34 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Don't rush to be savage!.)
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To: CE2949BB
What we can learn from the article is this: there is no single political, social, or economic concept work without looking at the context, at least not in the short term. Pushing democracy on places where terrorists can win the majority votes is recipe of killing the democracy itself. Pushing free-market system on a society where majority has socialist and bureaucratic mind would result in a corrupt and chaos situation.

This doesn't mean we should just do nothing. It only means that we should think and try harder to understand the social, political, and economic structure of a society before pushing an idea. Also, perhaps we sometimes we need to take gradual approach that will not yield in a short term but can only be enjoyed in long term.

17 posted on 01/01/2009 6:57:51 PM PST by paudio (Conservatism is a word with various meanings. To win, we need unified issue and message.)
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To: CE2949BB

What a pile of feces. Elan Journo Is another of the blind that does “NOT” grasp the idea of democracy. Everyone, every group, and individual, has the right to representation. It does “NOT” give them the right to fire rockets into civilian populations. Then....to run and hide when the times comes for them to answer for their actions. But I forgot....this is the Islamic Extremists way of waging war. The only thing that makes these idiots understand is total obliviation. No hiding behind women and children, running into Mosques, or hiding under rocks as far as that goes. I don’t blame Israel one bit for making this point known, and felt, through out the Muslim arenas.


20 posted on 01/01/2009 7:03:03 PM PST by Wavrnr10 (Eagles soar....but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines!)
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To: CE2949BB
Democracy, or let's call it representative good governance along western lines can work in the Middle East.

It should be however applied selectively. Look at Turkey or the Kurdish Regional Government in Iraq... it works there.

In other cases a pro-Western authocracy is preferable.

We have to look out for our interests, and stability of pro-Western governments should be the prime interest. In some places, were the people are evolved enough, democracy can take root and should be supported.

"Democracy" in the islamic world doesn't come overnight, and it's never perfect as it isn't in any other place.

It is a process which a)needs a pushing start b)stability and security to evolve and c)secularism/western orientation.

Turkey went through that process throughout the 20th century and so far has largely (comparatively) stayed well on the path. The Iraqi Kurds are in the middle of this process aswell. Iran went through the westernisation/secularisation process, but on the authoritarian path, which ended unfortunately in the islamic "republic".

Eternal vigilance is the other important factor. Iran wasn't vigilant on the threat of islamism. Turkey has to watch out, and take care it doesn't fall victim to it.

The Palestinian areas are entirely different from the rest of the Middle East though. They are not a proper state, have no semblance of proper governmental institutions, are entirely based on the hatred/hostility towards Israel and have not the slightest economical structure.

Any other Islamic country shines brightely compared to the Palestinian areas. Democracy there would inevitably lead to the victory of terrorists.

22 posted on 01/01/2009 7:07:03 PM PST by SolidWood (Sarah Palin - Everything that is Sweetness and Light!)
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To: CE2949BB

The title is too categorical. We have wisely supported Jordan’s King Abdullah with his enlightened autocratic rule rather than urge more power for his parliament, democratically elected but too pro-Islamist. Likewise Egypt’s Mubarak and even the House of Saud, whom we’ve nudged toward democracy only very gently (well, the al-Sauds were very frank that Osama bin Laden could win a democratic election there, and we were realistic). In Lebanon, a fragile and compromised democracy is at hanging on to legitimacy, after a fashion. That said, the Bush policy of democratic elections for the Palestinians, elections to form fully empowered, not limited, governments, was a lousy idea, and compleyely predictable. A limited parliament with the best strongman that could be found as the ultimate “decider” was the better option, and we’ve since recognized that by propping up Abu Abbas in the West Bank against Hamas in Gaza. The next West Bank elections will surely be “handled” in such a way as to ensure Fatah’s continued power there.


26 posted on 01/01/2009 7:13:48 PM PST by Mogwai (Palin/Santorum 2012!)
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To: CE2949BB

The so-called “Bush Doctrine”:

To the islamist philistinians: “Take Gaza and take the West Bank. Condi’ll help you.” Esentially cutting Israel in half.

To the Islamists in Waziristan: “BOOM!!!”

Then holding hands with, and kissing that filthy saudi/wahabbist prince when they and their oil should should have been the first target in this so-called “War On Terror.

There’s plenty more. And with 0bama coming into office, man,are we in trouble.


27 posted on 01/01/2009 7:15:09 PM PST by onedoug
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To: CE2949BB

Elections in Gaza were a wise move. It forced Hamas out of hiding and into the public ranks of official order. Israel is now fighting an established government on terms of war rather than ambiguous indigenous civilian war against an alleged social welfare group.


30 posted on 01/01/2009 7:32:04 PM PST by lonestar67 (Its time to withdraw from the War on Bush-- your side is hopelessly lost in a quagmire.)
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To: CE2949BB
Bush's Pro-Democracy Strategy Is Pro-Terrorism

oy.

31 posted on 01/01/2009 7:35:02 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (revolution is in the air.)
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To: CE2949BB; bethybabes69; All

Hamas Covenant 1988

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Thanks to FReeper bethybabes69 for the link (today).


34 posted on 01/01/2009 7:41:43 PM PST by PGalt
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To: CE2949BB

lol


35 posted on 01/01/2009 7:46:15 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny (ALSO SPRACH ZEROTHUSTRA)
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To: CE2949BB
You introduce democracy after you have crushed your enemy irreversibly. Just as we did with Japan and Germany. There was a lesson to be learned then.
40 posted on 01/01/2009 8:40:09 PM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: CE2949BB; TheBigIf

Trust me, they are right. “Democracy” is not freedom. In the middle east they would gladly vote for any politician who promised to destroy Israel and us.

Some people are just too stupid to govern themselves. I’m from NJ. I know.


43 posted on 01/01/2009 9:08:18 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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