Posted on 12/23/2008 12:09:15 AM PST by goldstategop
Given our preoccupation with politics and economics, it is easy to forget that for most of us micro issues still play a greater role in our lives. So here are some thoughts that, as heretical as they might sound, have been found extremely helpful, sometimes even marriage-saving, from listeners to my radio show, which features a male-female hour every week.
The subject is one of the most common problems that besets marriages: the wife who is not in the mood and the consequently frustrated and hurt husband.
There are marriages with the opposite problem -- a wife who is frustrated and hurt because her husband is rarely in the mood. But, as important and as destructive as that problem is, it has different causes and different solutions, and is therefore not addressed here. What is addressed is the far more common problem of He wants, she doesn't want.
It is an axiom of contemporary marital life that if a wife is not in the mood, she need not have sex with her husband. Here are some arguments why a woman who loves her husband might want to rethink this axiom.
First, women need to recognize how a man understands a wifes refusal to have sex with him: A husband knows that his wife loves him first and foremost by her willingness to give her body to him. This is rarely the case for women. Few women know their husband loves them because he gives her his body (the idea sounds almost funny). This is, therefore, usually a revelation to a woman. Many women think men's natures are similar to theirs, and this is so different from a woman's nature, that few women know this about men unless told about it.
This is a major reason many husbands clam up. A man whose wife frequently denies him sex will first be hurt, then sad, then angry, then quiet. And most men will never tell their wives why they have become quiet and distant. They are afraid to tell their wives. They are often made to feel ashamed of their male sexual nature, and they are humiliated (indeed emasculated) by feeling that they are reduced to having to beg for sex.
When first told this about men, women generally react in one or more of five ways:
1. You have to be kidding. That certainly isn't my way of knowing if he loves me. There have to be deeper ways than sex for me to show my husband that I love him.
2. If this is true, men really are animals.
3. Not my man. He knows I love him by the kind and loving way I treat him.
4. You have it backwards. If he truly loved me, he wouldnt expect sex when I'm not in the mood.
5. I know this and that's why I rarely say no to sex.
Lets deal with each of these responses.
1. You have to be kidding.
The most common female reaction to hearing about men's sexual nature is incredulity, often followed by denial. These are entirely understandable reactions given how profoundly different -- and how seemingly more primitive -- men's sexual nature is compared to women's.
Incredulity is certainly the reaction most women have when first being told that a man knows he is loved when his wife gives him her body. The idea that the man she is married to, let alone a man whose intelligence she respects, will to any serious extent measure her love of him by such a carnal yardstick strikes many women as absurd and even objectionable.
But the question that should matter to a woman who loves her man is not whether this proposition speaks poorly or well of male nature. It is whether it is true. And it is true beyond anything she can imagine. A woman who often deprives her husband of her body is guaranteed to injure him and to injure the marriage -- no matter what her female friends say, no matter what a sympathetic therapist says, and no matter what her man says. (Very few men will confess to the amount of hurt and eventual anger they experience when repeatedly denied sex).
Of course, there are times when a man must simply refrain from initiating sex out of concern for his wife's physical or emotional condition. And then there are men for whom sex rarely has anything to do with making love or whose frequency of demands are excessive. (What excessive means ought to be determined by the couple before the refusals begin, or continue.) But the fact remains: Your man knows you love him by your willingness to give him your body.
2. If this is true, men really are animals.
Correct. Compared to most women's sexual nature, men's sexual nature is far closer to that of animals. So what? That is the way he is made. Blame God and nature. Telling your husband to control it is a fine idea. But he already does. Every man who is sexually faithful to his wife already engages in daily heroic self-control. He has married knowing he will have to deny his sexual natures desire for variety for the rest of his life. To ask that he also regularly deny himself sex with the one woman in the world with whom he is permitted sex is asking far too much. Deny him enough times and he may try to fill this need with another woman. If he is too moral to ever do that, he will match your sexual withdrawal with emotional and other forms of withdrawal.
3. Not my man.
Many women will argue, understandably, My husband knows I love him. He doesn't need me to have sex with him to know that. And this is especially so when Im too tired or just don't want sex. Anyway, my man only enjoys sex with me when I'm into it, too.
The importance of mutual kindness to a marriage is impossible to overstate. But while necessary, it is not sufficient. Women can understand this by applying the same rule to men. Most women will readily acknowledge that it is certainly not enough for a man to be kind to her. If it were, women would rarely reject kind men as husband material. But as much as a woman wants a kind man, she wants more than that. If a man is, let us say, lacking in ambition or just doesn't want to work hard, few women will love him no matter how kind he is. In fact, most women would happily give up some kindness for hard work and ambition. A kind man with little ambition is not masculine, therefore not desirable to most women.
Likewise, a kind woman who is not sexual with her husband is not feminine. She is a kind roommate.
Furthermore, a woman who denies the man she loves sex is not kind.
4. You have it backward.
Every rational and decent man knows there are times when he should not initiate sex. In a marriage of good communication, a man would either know when those times are or his wife would tell him (and she needs to -- women should not expect men to read their minds. He is her man, not her mother.)
But, to repeat the key point, rejection of sex should happen infrequently. And it should almost never be dependent on mood -- see Part II next week.
5. I know this and that's why I rarely say no to my husband.
This is a wise woman. She knows a sexually fulfilled husband is a happy husband. (At the same time, men need to recognize that complete sexual fulfillment is unattainable in this world.) And because a happy husband loves his wife more, this cycle of love produces a happy home.
In Part II, I will explain in detail why mood should play little or no role in a woman's determining whether she has sex with her husband.
I conclude Part I with this clarification: Everything written here applies under two conditions: 1. The woman is married to a good man. 2. She wants him to be a happy husband. If either condition is not present, nothing written here matters. But if you are a woman who loves your husband, what is written here can be the most important thing you will read concerning your marriage. Because chances are the man you love won't tell you.
When a friend recommended the book “Five Love Languages”, I argued with him. I gave it a chance, though. Even if my husband calls it “crap” , so didn’t read it. It talks about how primarily people express love by doing certain things and expect it in return on some level. I like to touch. I must have contact with other people. My husband’s is service. He’s more likely to check my oil on my truck or help someone move. If someone isn’t speaking the other’s “language”, then they aren’t going to respond well in other areas. It was a great surprise to me the other day when we went to the this antique plaza and in one of the areas my husband just kissed me for no reason. That meant a lot and will probably prove beneficial this week.
It makes perfect sense.
Little gestures of affection and love carry over and keep the romance alive.
When men say they don’t get much, what is deemed not much? Once a year? Every few months? Or, like my husband, who when cranky will complain about every other day.
Agreed. I think in order to avoid a “war of the sexes” from erupting it is important to focus on the universal truths;
-frustration is bad, for either side.
-Any relationship requires effort put into the relationship. A marriage certificate is not the finish line, but the starting point.
-On either side, if you care about the relationship, his or her happiness is paramount to your happiness.
-Too many relationships are disposed of because of any of the above being neglected.
exactly...just defining “enough” will change from man to man.
From woman to woman too.
“A marriage certificate is not the finish line, but the starting point.”
I like that one.
Marriage is a treasure and a joy.
So sad to see so many people speak about it as if it were drudgery - or a type of prison.
I was a soldier, and he was a soldier. We both had the same MOS.
I became no longer “in the mood” because I was tired!
I was a soldier
I was a mother (and/or pregnant)
I was a cook
I was a housekeeper
I was a laundress
I was TIRED.
He was a soldier.
He spent Friday afternoons/evenings/nights drinking with his buddies--WHILE I went and picked up the kids--and took 'em home, fed, loved, bathed, and put 'em to bed with bed-time stories.
On RARE occasions, he would traipse downstairs to the laundry room to carry up the cleaned laundry (He NEVER took it down, did the laundry, folded the laundry. Guess who ALWAYS did those...and I had to ASK him to “watch the kids” when I did it.)
He was NOT tired.
I'm blaimin’ ENERGY for the “loss of interest”! (And maybe LOSS OF INTEREST due to ALTERATION OF AFFECTION???)
This isn't a "one answer fits all" problem: Depends on the partners...see my post 147.
I’m going by what my husband has said. That nothing is better than it being deemed as a chore.
Quite true across the board.
“When there ain't no loving there ain't no getting along.”
Sexual relations are like a lubricant that eases through any rough spots and reduces wear and tear in your relationship. In other words.... a sexually satisfied man will put up with a lot (and vice versa).
As they say...
“A good man is like tile. If you lay him good you can walk on him for years.” ;)
First of all, thanks for replying to many of the posts here. I find the comments by you and others to be very helpful and informative!
I am a happily married man; my wife and I are "empty-nesters". Our kids are scattered around the US: working, going to college, in the military, or "finding themselves".
Now, I would like to say that going to work each day (5 out of 7, anyway) should not depend on my mood. I work because of duty, but also because I enjoy it. Its fulfilling to me. I get alot of my self-esteem from work. When I don't feel like going to work, the mood often fades after my feet get moving. And having a good day or bad day rarely is anticipated in advance, and depends little on my initial early morning mood. (Attitude and the influence it can have is another topic altogether! LOL)
I would like to think that such is the situation with my wife and our love life. And I would hope that most good marriages are similar in a way: the woman enjoys sex, she knows that her mood is not all-important but can be a factor, she gets positive self-image from love-making, and it can be seen as a duty but is much more enjoyable if embraced as a part of life.
Having said all that, I would like to point out that there is maturity to be gained for most men in dealing with not always getting sex when they want it. Legitimate reasons for a woman to negotiate a night off include (IMHO) fatigue, pain, illness, and emotional upset. These go beyond mood. Sure, "emotional upset" is subjective. And every relationship is different. But the kind of roller-coaster-day I am talking about might include: picking up a teenager from jail, sending a son to bootcamp, or hearing about an adult child's pending divorce.
Besides, making love can be simply laying together, holding her, soothing her and nothing more!
Knowing that my wife recognizes my need and will try to be available for me tomorrow night -- or even a few days from now -- is reassuring and it defuses my typical "hurt and angry" reaction.
Flexibility is key in a give and take relationship. I thank God for mine lasting as long as it has and pray that He continues to bless my wife and I with what it takes to grow and prosper.
I am interested in comments from any & all.
Awww! You’re a keeper! :)
“Nonsense. It is your married male friends who appear to consider themselves entittled. If you have ANY talent in the sack, and you marry the right woman, she will WANT to make love most of the time. Prager needs a female anatomy lesson and maybe he would get more from Mrs. Prager. “
Nope, you are completely wrong sorry. I saw it happening with friends and if you think it’s a talent issue then you have an odd concept of the marital union.
I guess those minor league batters who don’t make it to the majors should give it up then. From A ball to Triple A, that’s a lot of ballplayers. LOL
This idea of marriage being everything BUT a union of man and wife is what is leading to this dysfunction.
My buddy “the monk” couldn’t even get his wife to join him on a weekend to go to a museum and spend some relationship time. She had everything else a priority except that. And I know her well. Went to college with her. She was a humanities major in our lovely NYC private university and got plenty of feminism training.
She had an overbearing mother and never learned what being a good wife meant. She knew about going for her goals, more education, more house, more “self-fulfillment” but she didn’t have a clue about taking care of her man.
In college she tried to hook me but I saw her attitude then and she was very difficult even in then. She carried this right into marriage.
And when the problems arose, the guy stayed with me for a spell and thankfully they did work things out as they have two lovely children.
When I last visited, it was great to see her laughing and leaning her head on him at the end of the evening.
She finally “got it.”
My other friend, well that was going for a while. He could be obnoxious when he was with his wife early on and you’d be in the car and he’d be singing “No one does it better” from the Bond movie with you in the back seat. Nauseating.
She eventually cut him off from any sex and after a few years he tried counseling but after one session she refused saying it was too inconvenient a location.
She then asked for a separation and in less than a year a divorce. Not three months later she told him she was getting remarried. To the Mexican gardner.
So I guess those gardening tools really add to the “talent” you cite which you deem invaluable to a marriage.
Good luck with that.
Prager is divorced.....twice.
You are right as rain my friend.
“I wouldn’t agree that fits the definition of “having it all.”
Most women I know like sex.”
It’s not my definition, just a hodgepodge of feminist claptrap. A lot women have been infected with it. More recently, it’s become self-evident that those Cosmo articles were nonsense. But the cost, well it’s been high.
As for women liking sex, great. Hopefully with their spouses.
I don’t think mood should be a frequent consideration, but I do believe it can be an honest consideration.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.