Posted on 12/06/2008 3:44:15 PM PST by jamese777
Democratic officials say President-elect Barack Obama has selected retired Gen. Eric K. Shinseki to be the next Veterans Affairs secretary.
The officials said Obama will announce his selection Sunday. They spoke on condition of anonymity to avoid pre-empting the official announcement. Shinseki is the former Army chief of staff who upset his civilian bosses in 2003 when he testified to Congress that it might take several hundred thousand U.S. troops to control Iraq after the U.S. invasion. He was forced out of his job within months for being "wildly off the mark." But his words proved prophetic after President George W. Bush in early 2007 announced a "surge" of additional troops to Iraq after miscalculating.
(Excerpt) Read more at nbcwashington.com ...
I believe that History will note that Rumsfeld’s performance set the stage for the resurgence of the Democrat Party and he must share the blame for the situation that we now face. His boss, likewise, he supported Rumsfeld far beyond the point when he should have given him the boot.
Not quite. Edit35 makes some very good points in post #81, but he omits some critical determinative factors.
He, along most other Freepers, has either forgotten or never understood that during that critical time period of March, April, and May of 2003 he referenced there were several other crucial developments and decisions by President Bush and his administration which profoundly altered the course of the war and post-war rebuilding efforts in a negative direction.
During that time period, just as our our military was completing one of the most dazzlingly successful operations in history, they lost the political battle back home over who would be in control over the next phase of operations.
You all seem to have forgotten that the original plan of both Rumsfeld and the DOD was to bring in retired General Jay Garner (who was widely respected by the Iraqis) as military governor, much as General MacArthur in post-war Japan. Garner actually arrived in Iraq and set about implementing these plans. However, back in Washington, for whatever reason, factions who were bitterly opposed to the DOD/Rumsfeld plans for post-war rebuilding (these included Colin Powell and the State Department, and elements of the CIA and NSA) managed to gain the ear of President Bush and convince him to turn over the post-war phase to them.
The result was that within 60 days of beginning his work in Iraq, General Garner was abruptly recalled and control was handed to L. Paul Bremer of the State Department. From that point on Bremer and State were calling the shots, and Rumsfeld and the DOD were under their control and subject to their operational mandates.
Bremer and his crew are the ones who made the decision to disband the Iraqi army, who allowed an Iraqi constitution subject to "Islam" to be implemented, and who made it necessary for our troops to fight TWO Battles of Fallujah. It was Bremer who personally announced, when Muqtada al Sadr was charged by the Iraqi courts with responsibility for the murder of Ayatollah al Khoi, that he would be arrested and stand trial, and then backed down and let him walk. Bremer was totally oblivious to what a tremendous loss of face and credibility he suffered as a result, and that from then on the various factions vying for power knew he could be played and rolled
This perceived pattern of weakness in Iraq itself, along with the fact that anyone in the world with a satellite dish could see that the Bush administration was demonstrating similar weakness in confronting the unrelenting efforts of its domestic critics and enemies to weaken the support of the American people for the war, was a big factor in the subsequent deterioration of the situation in Iraq, which led to the necessity for the surge.
It should never have gotten to that point, and it was not because of the number of troops. It was how they were used, and not used. It was strategic and tactical mismanagement on the part of Bremer, State and those allied factions to whom President Bush entrusted Iraq. And ultimately, it was because of failures of judgment and leadership from President Bush.
It is impossible to say whether or not "Rumsfeld's plan" for post-war Iraq was a success or failure because the actual DOD/Rumsfeld plan was aborted before it could even get underway. The plan which was implemented was a Bremer/Powell/State/CIA plan. Rumsfeld and the military had to do the dirty work and the dying, but they were always operationally subject to Bremer and his diplomats. The sad irony is that with the aid of the media and the refusal of the Bush administration to defend itself they have been able to pin their own failures on Rumsfeld...
When discussing the various failures in Iraq it is disheartening to see the degree to which Freepers have bought into the media and "domestic opposition's" meme/storyline about Iraq, and have forgotten what they saw unfold before their very eyes. But then, as the saying goes, history is written by the winners...
Alas, my knowledge of Sec Rumsfeld's statements and misstatements isn't as encyclopedic as it could be.
Your use of language such as sniveling to describe people who don’t share your view is your prerogative - but it isn’t accurate or objective.
Don’t believe I used the sniveling adjective to describe what I thought about the beret or people who do not share my views.
My apology - it was centurion316 - and he/she used the term in post #70.
To centurion, I still disagree with what you posted, and I continue to believe that Shinseki was a bad General officer.
The very fact that he accepted a political appointment from the likes of Barack Obama is evidence he is a bad seed, and of questionable character.
Barack Obama is a man who believes babies should be murdered even if they survive abortions.
I believe God tells us to judge people by their character. Hence, Barack Obama is an evil man. Shinseki accepted a paying Government job from Barack Obama.
What am I missing here?
Yup. He also was the one who, correctly, told Rumsfeld that the size of the force was inadequate for the mission. This one blunder by Rumsfeld cost Rummy his job, had to be rectified by the surge and cost George W. Bush and the GOP dearly in 2006 and 2008.
A lot of folks have pointed out that Shinseki was right all along about the number of troops needed in Iraq, so here’s another one. Shinseki’s also the one who spearheaded Army transformation, leading to our current Brigade Combat Team configuration, and it was long overdue and very successful.
I have my quibbles about the beret, too, but Shinseki did FAR more to help the Army and this country than he did to hurt it.
I can’t refute your point or disagree with your assessment. Most of my experiences with Shinseki were when we were Lieutenant Colonels and Colonels. My contacts with him were less frequent when he became a general officer, though I did bump into him from time to time.
I think that he blundered on what should have been a simple and straightforward decision on the beret. He was right on the mark on the decision to move forward on the Stryker brigades and I was pleased to support his efforts toward that in a small way. The experiences of combat have validated his decisions.
I never knew his politics, but they appear to be quite troubling. I find this appointment quite curious because it has been widely rumored that he intends to run for Inoyue’s Senate seat in 2010. That doesn’t leave much time to serve as Veteran’s Affairs Secretary. Given the way many Army veterans view him, even a year might be a bit too long to stay.
That was me. I used the term snivelling and stand by it. Professional soldiers, especially very highly qualified ones don’t need jump boots, berets, badges, and dangles to prove their worth. I find this attitude much less prevelent today than was true 10 or so years ago. Several years of combat experience tend to give young soldiers a different perspective and the sorts of things that we have been talking about become less important.
I agree. Shinseki's orginal design, as currently seen in the Stryker Brigades, was for three maneuver battalions per Brigade Combat Team. The Force Design bean counters later cut it down to two and that is one too few.
In my Stryker BDE it was three IN battalions, a Cav squadron, and a FA battalion (they mostly did IN missions anyway). And we were STILL spread thin! Maybe some of those bean counters would like to have done some patrolling with us in Iraq...
Thank you for your service, and for your insights regarding Shinseki.
I never knew his politics, but they appear to be quite troubling. I find this appointment quite curious because it has been widely rumored that he intends to run for Inoyue’s Senate seat in 2010.
This bothers me also.
My guess on the man is that he is a hard core Democrat and God does not figure into his life or his decision making.
Best to you centurion.
He is all in all a very good and tough soldier and the purpose of this trial balloon may be for the One to see how much his taking his leftist supporters for granted will serve him by appointing tough soldier.
Well, I’m sure that I did not exhibit a very reasoned edge when this thread first began. I have grown weary of the many Shinseki POS and Rummy Rocks posts over the years. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions on these two men, but those opinions carry more weight when they are formed by some basic knowledge of the issues involved. I have no use for Mr. Rumsfeld, but thought Shinseki did a pretty good job as CSA. His political ambitions are another matter.
I have found the basic knowledge for issues such as this is usually tissue paper thin. I was on the ground floor of Stryker inception so really enjoy all the "knowledgeable" comments that appear here and on other boards. I don't remember seeing any of these experts looking over my shoulder as I sat in a vault entering the test data. When we presented the data to the decision makers in the form of a decision matrix I didn't see any there either.
If you worked for him, or you interacted with him, I can see that you might be loyal to the man in some capacity. But, you have to admit he is now an Obama Political Appointee.
If you want to sing his praises on this board you may find the same opposition. I wish you better luck on the Daily Kos if you want total approval.
I remember those events well. I wonder where “Sparky” and his Gavins are these days?
I haven't seen or heard from "Sparky - AKA Mike" in a couple of years.
I agree. The most important thing, IMHO, is to do the job right. I absolutely hate ‘rules of engagement’ and much of the other stuff that is required.
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