Dinesh D'Souza: When Science Points To God

Townhall ^ | November 24, 2008 | Dinesh D'Souza

[mvpel]

Sure it is. If there is no deity, everything is allowed. And if everything is allowed, there are funner things to aspire to than "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."

Likewise, if there is a deity and an afterlife, believers might convince themselves that they're doing someone a favor by torturing them to death, since after all, what's a little excruciating pain in this world as compared to the eternity of the afterlife?

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[Tribune7]

science is based on reason while Christianity is based on faith.

Science is based on reason. Reason is based on Christianity (or, at the least, an uncaused cause that commands we reject superstitious idolatry).

Atheistic materialism is not even faith. It's irrational delusion.

[numberonepal]

I used to be an atheist/agnostic even though I was brought up in a strong Christian household. Through my study of Physics and Mathematics I again found faith. I can pinpoint the turn around to two things. The first chip on my shoulder was blown off when I learned that the sun and moon were EXACTLY the same size at their zenith in the sky. The second blow came when I really started to understand the universal constant “e” (elementary charge).

[caddie]

Very interesting post.

This part below reminds me of Plato's Allegory of the Cave in his work The Republic.

Without diminishing the contemporary philosopher, he has in a sense updated Plato in the IT idiom.

First, he said to imagine the universe as you perceive it to be your “human interface” with reality. Similar to the screen on your computer, it represents what is happening, but is not a true representation of reality. Evolution guarentees that it cannot be. The amount of energy needed to perceive real reality would be a huge waste. Your perception is evolved so that your “hack” into reality is better than the “hack” of what you want to eat or what wants to eat you. Humans may not even have the capacity to understand reality. Thus, trying to expain the universe by using what we are able to perceive is like trying to explain what is happening in a computer by what you see on the screen. The screen represents reality, but it is not. It is your “human interface” because you cannot communicate with the true reality of the computer.

[caddie]

CS Lewis was a very brilliant Oxford person.

He's completely right about science and belief, and helped me along many a time.

His best assertion: Jesus was either God, or he was an insane person. The things He said claimed His own divinity and therefore disqualified Him from being just a great human philosopher, prophet or philanthropist.

I keep the assertion in mind because I know that the Moose Limbs venerate Jesus as a great philosopher, prophet, and philanthropist, which He is not.

[caddie]

I went to the link... very interesting. Will read more about Hoyle and cosmology.

The only relevant observation I have is a similar realization regarding biology and medicine... there are too many finely tuned systems which interact... it would be so unlikely that the machinery of a cell 'evolved' in the Brownian-motion-to-Darwin-survival model espoused by just about everyone in contemporary science, that I find the situation comical.

Keep thoughts like that to yourself, though, or you will find yourself out of work in most universities.

[GunRunner]

You need to read the OT better if that's what you think.

Really? Please cite book and verse where eternal damnation is mentioned in the Old Testament. Please note that Sheol is not hell.

[GunRunner]

I don't think so. I know lots and lots of Christians who quickly admit to moral failure.

I wasn't addressing the topic of admission of moral failure, only that a believer's morals are likely tuned to whatever their "personal" god's morals are, which differ from person to person.

[LetMarch]

I still learning to love the O.T. and the N.T. equally, since both focus on God’s provision for His Son to provide redemption. “And Abraham said, My son will provide Himself a lamb.....” (Gen. 22:8a)
Then in John 1:29, “The next day John seeth Jesus unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world.”
And in O.T. book of Isaiah 9:14 “Therefore the LORD Himself shall give you a sign; Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel(God with us)”.
We know in the N.T. “A voice from heaven spoke, and said, “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, Hear Him.”

[GraniteStateConservative]

South Park had a wonderful parody of Richard Dawkins, in a two-part episode, with Dawkins being portrayed to say “Logic and reason aren’t enough: You also have to be a dick to everyone who doesn’t think like you.” The result is, in the future, people are still having arguments and very deadly wars over idiotic differences, and, in this case, it’s over the stupidest possible difference— the choice of name for the group atheists belong to.

[GraniteStateConservative]

Religios movements are unfortunately filled with a lot of people taking things literally that should only be taken seriuosly.

Minus the typos, that should be in Bartlett's Familiar Quotations. That is just brilliantly stated.

[GunRunner]

The first chip on my shoulder was blown off when I learned that the sun and moon were EXACTLY the same size at their zenith in the sky.

Could you elaborate? Why would this make you return to faith?

And if the sun and the moon are exactly the same size, then why do we have annular eclipses?

[RightOnTheLeftCoast]

"Is it very likely that there is a deity? No."

A statement of faith.

[tpanther]

A "personal" god is a running fad with the religious community. It seems that everyone seems to know god and exactly what he wants, which obviously differs from person to person.

You're just as likely to have a Christian disagree with another Christian on what is "moral" as you would a Christian and a non-believer.

That describes human failure, not God. God's Holy Word is and always will be constant.

I've seen alot of looseness with facts, going so far as to claim Hitler was Catholic. This illustrates just how much atheists misunderstand Christianity.

My advice is to compare the actions and behaviors of Christians with New Testament scriputre. You'll find alot of people considering themselves to be Christian are not.Sometimes not even close!

[MrB]

I didn’t bother.

With this statement,

“You’re just as likely to have a Christian disagree with another Christian on what is “moral” as you would a Christian and a non-believer.”

he told me he was beyond reasonable argument because we don’t have the same frame of reference (the consistancy and authority of God’s Word).

[aruanan]

And if the sun and the moon are exactly the same size, then why do we have annular eclipses?

Probably when an eclipse takes place when the moon is at the point of its orbit farthest from earth, making it appear smaller.

[GunRunner]

Probably when an eclipse takes place when the moon is at the point of its orbit farthest from earth, making it appear smaller.

Yes, both the moon's orbit around the Earth, and the Earth's orbit around the sun are elliptical, so they appear as different sizes at different times of the year.

Why this would make someone sympathetic to the divine is beyond me. In a 100 million years the Moon will be several thousand miles further from the Earth than it is now, so all eclipses will be annular. Our evolutionary descendants will not see the same illusion.

[neverdem]

bttt

[js1138]

The only difficulty, as Folger makes clear, is that there is no empirical evidence for the existence of any universes other than our own. Moreover, there may never be such evidence.

Somewhat out of date.