[metmom]

MrB: as the basis of science is that the universe has orderly, reasonble, and discoverable rules - taken from the Judaeo-Christian view of creation.

CW: Science must assume that there is some order. If there were not some order, you could not even depend on the sun rising each morning. False argument.

How is that a *false argument*? MrB's statement was that the basis for science that the universe is orderly, reasonable, and discoverable, has it's roots in the Judeo-Christian view of creation, not that there wasn't order. You didn't even address the comment he made.

If the statement is false, please provide sources to back up your contention and demonstrate where that worldview came from.

[ColdWater]

How is that a *false argument*?

He makes the assumption that since science is based on assuming order, that this assumption is based on theology. That is the false argument. It is based on logic and necessity and I gave an example to show the point.

[MrB]

His viewpoint is that an ordered universe is a given in all worldviews, it’s not, I’ve studied this, he obviously has not, he’s ignorant, but assuming an air of superiority,

thus, acting like any liberal that you’ve ever argued with.

The Judaeo-Christian worldview led to modern science. Eastern philosophy and Islam inherently could not.

http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Early-Modern-Science-Islam/dp/0521529948

[ColdWater]

has it's roots in the Judeo-Christian view of creation

Is this the seven days is seven days or seven days is seven thousand years? Is this the Genesis that says that animals were created before Adam or the Genesis that says that Adam was alone so God created animals for his comfort? Is this the view that accepts that man was created from dirt but cannot accept that man may have come from mud?

[ColdWater]

If the statement is false,

I reiterate. I cannot answer the question unless you clarify your definition of "Judaeo-Christian view of creation" as I had requested.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dear metmom!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. – John 1:1

The root Greek translated to Word is Logos. Sometimes logos it is translated to logic.

The word-concept Logos dates back to Heraclitus – circa 600 B.C.

Essentially his was a philosophy of divine order (logos) against which there is change. The concept finds a parallel in the first and second laws of thermodynamics. In the first law, the total energy of the universe remains the same. In the second law, entropy increases until total equilibrium is achieved (cars rust, people age, etc.)

Logos is also translated to mean language, perfect language. And thus finds a parallel also in Information Theory, a branch of Mathematics especially as applied to Molecular Biology.

A clear distinction between between life versus non-life/death in nature is information (successful communication) - which is the reduction of uncertainty [Shannon entropy] in the receiver or molecular machine in going from a before state to an after state. The DNA is the message, information is the successful communication of the message plus/minus noise (e.g. mutations or broadcasts, viruses et al.)

And of course in Scripture:

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [There is] no speech nor language, [where] their voice is not heard.– Psalms 19:1-3

And in theology, God's perfect Truth or Goodness or Light or righteousness is the standard against which man is measured and always fall short. The word ratio is the root of the word rational. Aristotle used to word logos to mean rational discourse.

For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. – Hebrews 4:12

Man is not the measure of God. God is the measure of man.

But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. – Isaiah 64:6

Following the Platonic distinction between perfection and imperfection, Philo of Alexandria, a Hellenized Jew, personified the word logos to Logos the Creator.

Thus, in common language of the day thanks to Alexander the Great’s normalizing Greek in the civilized world – the word Logos is usually translated as Word, the living Word of God, Jesus Christ, the Creator.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. – John 1:1-5

Theology and philosophy are at the root of science, e.g. Socrates>Plato>Aristotle. So it is hardly surprising that the concept of divine order gave rise to the presupposition of methodological naturalism, that nature is knowable, predictable, measurable. Or to put it another way, science does not dwell on the "divine" part of divine order because it accepts that it cannot measure God, i.e. the scientific method does not apply to theology and philosophy.

And at this point, I’ll demur because betty boop, my dearest sister in Christ, is much more capable of explicating the points summarized above.