Posted on 08/22/2008 3:27:12 AM PDT by Man50D
Alliance Defense Fund attorneys filed suit against the City of Elmira, N.Y., after police threatened to arrest three Christians if they did not remove a shirt and stop sharing biblical messages during a "gay" pride event at a public park.
John Barnes wore a shirt with the message "Liberated from sin by the blood of Jesus" to the Southern Tier Pride 2008 at Wisner Park – a June 14 event promoted as a celebration of homosexual, bisexual and transgender lifestyles.
According to the complaint filed in a U.S. district court, Elmira police Capt. Michael Marrone ordered Barnes to remove his shirt to prevent a "negative atmosphere" at the event and arouse discomfort in other attendees.
Barnes obeyed the officer and took off his shirt so he could remain at the park without facing arrest.
Another Christian, Julian Raven, carried a Christian newsletter to the event called the Elmira Protestor. Marrone threatened to arrest Raven if he distributed the letter, saying it contained obscene or illegal material, according to the complaint. Raven complied with the order.
Capt. James Wandell and Sgt. Sharon Moyer threatened a third Christian, James DeFerio, with arrest for holding a sign on a public sidewalk adjacent to the park. The sign read: "Thousands of ex-homosexuals have experienced the life-changing love of Jesus Christ" and listed websites for more information about ministry to ex-"gays."
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
"...How does that work?"
It originated with the idea of animal sacrifice to atone for sins. When we sin (lying, cheating, stealing, murder) we adversely affect those around us who are innocent of any wrongdoing. Traditionally, the animal that was sacrificed was often a pet of the family, such as a sweet, innocent lamb. The lambs were sacrificed to teach people that no matter what we do, when we sin, the innocent suffer, and symbolically, the lamb bore the brunt of their sins just as the innocent people around them were affected by sin.
Enter Jesus Christ, aka "The Lamb of God." Blameless. Innocent. Unblemished. Sinless. Sacrificed for the sins of all humanity so that those who claim that sacrifice and believe in it are forgiven of their sins for all time, a parallel to the Jewish tradition of sacrificing an innocent lamb to atone for sin.
This explanation may or may not make any sense to you, but that's the way Christians see the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. At least that's how I see it.
I don't believe God demanded sacrifice because he enjoyed killing innocent animals. He demanded it to show in concrete terms to people that sinning affects those around us, and that the innocent suffer when we sin. Jesus Christ was the final, innocent sacrifice, and no other sacrifices were needed to atone for sin after his sacrifice.
LOL.
Try asking that question over at saddleback.com. We are talking about Free Speech. It should not matter what was on the T-Shirt. They have a right to wear them even if says America Sucks. I don’t have to like it and we do not have to have a dicsussion about what that would mean. The fact would be only that it is considered Free Speech.
Many thanks. I need to digest this a bit, but it is one of the clearest explanations I’ve received-—ever-—including four years at a small Christian college.
Fundamentally, "The Redemption" is something you believe or do not believe.
You could be classified as a 'Rationalist' in that you probably would not be satisfied with any answer which is not derived by reason alone.
But it did matter. He did not get arrested for a shirt that read: "Proud to be Gay."
Why was his statement considered an arrestable (offensive) act?
That is the free speech issue, that some speech is free (allowed) and some is not.
There's more to the story than mere faith, and I am asking for the theological (as opposed to a rational) explanation--which I have heard in many different forms before, but it just doesn't sound consistent with the theological message of Jesus Christ, unless one assumes a cruel, vengeful and even childish God.
You’re certainly welcome. Hey, I was raised my entire life in a Christian home, and yet most of the churches I attended never bothered to explain the connection between Jewish sacrificial tradition and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. We were taught to simply accept his sacrifice and be free of sin, with nary an explanation as to why. Not sure about other churches, but the churches I attended did a very, very poor job of explaning it or even trying to. It only started to make sense from a foundational standpoint after reading the works of others far more learned on the subject.
And besides ... Jesus Christ being innocent and doing miracles of healing, etc., is His rising from the dead after 3 days and being seen by many,the apostles and 5000 more. And was seen being lifted up into heaven, ... And much more.
I'm realize you know all this, but it is an important part of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the hope of glory; to include when talking to others.
Read the Bible ... God will meet you there.
Not meant to be critical ...
My home, church and college were the same way.
I've got some good resources to read and try to comprehend, thanks to you and a few others.
I will say that I should have said that Jesus Christ was "the ultimate fulfillment of the old Jewish traditions of sacrifice," not "the parallel" to those traditions. My bad.
At the risk of incurring the wrath of many of this board, I do not question the existence of God but I do not fully accept those qualities attributed to Him.
BTW, the God of the Old Testament WAS DEPICTED as cruel and vengeful.
Finally, isn't amazing that rag heads will off themselves in hopes of getting access to those dozens of virgins in the afterlife? It is a matter of faith!!
Many people have a problem with street preachers. Why? Typically, street preachers get right in people’s faces, and scream and yell at them. The street preacher’s behavior is strongly tinged with anger. The message comes across as threatening. Behavior that is perceived as threatening, does constitute harassment.
Actually I thought you did excellent in so far as you went.
Thank you, brother.
*********************
LOL! I like it. Can I steal it? :)
Thank you and Rudder both for the kind words.
Hey, I’m learning something here...and I’ll be back when I’ve read and digest everything.
Yeah, but, somehow...things change. Hmmm
You didn’t read the post that led up to this. The meaning of mechanism is in the context of that post and not as you have interpreted it. I try to limit my ridicule to bitchy people.
Sure!
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