Sandra Tanner and Utah Lighthouse Ministries lose lawsuit against FairLDS

[Grig]

A three-judge panel of the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in favor of FairLDS, Scott Gordon, and Allen Wyatt and against Sandra Tanner and Utah Lighthouse Ministry.

This lawsuit was an effort to limit free speech by making an online parody websites legally actionable. The case was previously thrown out in summery judgment by the Tenth Circuit Court for the District of Utah, but Mrs. Tanner appealed.

You can read the full court ruling here:

http://www.ck10.uscourts.gov/opinions/07/07-4095.pdf

You can read a write-up from the Citizen Media Law Project on the judgment here:

http://tinyurl.com/58dvho

Here is the original District judge's ruling that was affirmed:

http://www.thelen.com/tlu/UtahLighthouseVDiscoveryComputing.pdf

[Elsie]

my knowing people who, like me, started by trying to prove God's Church wrong, only to find that it is true.

Yeah; you merely ACCEPT a book that is NOT 100% translated correctly as canon and REJECT a book that your Founder and Prophet 'translated'!

[Elsie]

Anyway, its all over wikileaks now.

They are so sec uh; SACRED that they don't even appear in ANY of their 'scriptures'!

[Old Mountain man]

I haven’t sued anbody ever in my entire life to stop them from making saracastic comments about me. I guess Sandra Tanner can’t say that, can she?

[Elsie]

I haven’t sued anbody ever in my entire life to stop them from making saracastic comments about me. I guess Sandra Tanner can’t say that, can she?

What you preach is not that well known.

[Old Mountain man]

Free speech? Golly, I though all Americans knew about that. Are you sure you are an American?

[fproy2222]

If you've got nothing more than a burning in the bosom, admit it.

+++++++++++++++++

This suggests to me that you only have a book knowledge of God's word and no personal witness.

[fproy2222]

I’ve read a great deal of the Tanner’s material. They don’t use subterfuge and trickery to make thier case against Mormonism. They use Mormonism itself, it’s teachngs and it’s history.

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Have you studied the allegation to the original documents, and surrounding pertinent documents, and compared that to what the Tanners say, or do you have faith that what they say is true?

[Grig]

“I’ve read a great deal of the Tanner’s material. They don’t use subterfuge and trickery to make thier case against Mormonism.”

If all you read is what they and their echo chambers produce, you are not going to have the weaknesses of their their work pointed out to you. They are not so solid as you think, they are just good at making you think they are so good.

“Looks like Mormonism can’t defend itself from the truth, so they use subterfuge to hide.”

According to anti-Mormons Carl Mosser and Paul Owen (who produce works far more scholarly than the Tanners), Mormons are doing a better job of defending itself than Evangelicals are doing in attacking us. (http://www.cephasministry.com/mormon_apologetics_losing_battle.html) Sites like FairLDS and the FARMS etc. do an excellent job.

If a couple Mormon guys decide that on top of that they want to toss anti-Mormons a small fraction of the mockery they heap on us, it is their right to do so whether you think it is in bad taste or not.

[colorcountry]

As long as smearing the Tanners is allowed, here is some interesting material about the LDS apologist at FARMS and FAIR. They are becoming known as the kooks they truly are.

Everyone is ensured their right to believe in kooky beliefs by the Constitution, and so I will defend their right too. I wonder if any of them post of FreeRepublic.

DANIEL PETERSON
Professor of Islamic Studies and Arabic at BYU
Regarded by many apologists to be assuming Nibleyesque (lay prophet) status.
Unheard of by leading scholars in his professional sphere as Tal Bachman discovered when he contacted academics in his field in five US universities. The head of the department at UCLA where he obtained his PhD hadn’t heard of him! Yikes!
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon458.htm

D. JEFFERY MELDRUM
Associate Professor of Anatomy and Anthropology, Idaho State University
Meldrum appears in the deeply flawed FAIR DVD (The Book of Mormon and New World DNA, 2008). Meldrum is the foremost authority on BIGFOOT. He is considered a “joke” among his peers and dozens of scientists at ISU have called for his dismissal.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15548356/

JOHN TVEDTNES
Career apologist with FARMS and retired scholar from BYU. Masters degree in linguistics, but self-appointed expert on DNA studies. Tvedtnes has written at length on the DNA issue.
http://www.meridianmagazine.com/ancients/050713dna3.html

He was recently forced to retract two of the boldest claims he made in the above mentioned FAIR DVD they were so blatantly incorrect.

WARREN ASTON
Travel agent and UFO expert. No formal training.
Aston runs a travel agency (Bountiful Tours) that conducts tours to Arabia after discovering what Terryl Givens and Daniel Peterson consider to be the strongest archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon. In his book “By The Hand of Mormon,” Terryl Givens touts Aston’s work as “the first actual archaeological evidence for the historicity of the Book of Mormon.”

Aston is also an internationally recognized “expert” on UFOs.
Aston speaking at a UFO Symposium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NikV6YDW4Lk
Aston claiming UFO cover-up at Pine Gap (US military base in Australia)
http://www.ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/auforn4.shtml
Aston’s tour company
http://www.bountifultours.com/tour.html

RODNEY MELDRUM (no relation to Jeffery Meldrum but you must wonder)
Studied marketing for one year at Utah State University.
Self-appointed “senior scientist” promoting Great Lakes Geography theory. He is also firmly in the creation science camp, which believes the earth is only 6,000 years old. Currently involved in a stoush with FAIR apologists who are firmly in the Mesoamerican geography camp.
http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org/index.php

STEVEN JONES
Professor of Physics at BYU. He was “let go” from BYU because even they were embarrassed by his behavior.
Widely known in the US as one of the scientists who believes that the US government was behind the demolition of the World Trade Centers.
Jones was a scientific adviser for a group of Great Lakes apologists and has dabbled in Book of Mormon archeology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

ALLAN WYATT
FAIR watchdog and webmaster with no publicized academic background. According to FAIR Wyatt’s words “should not be interpreted as official statements of LDS doctrine, belief or practice.”

MICHAEL ASH
FAIR apologist with no publicized academic background. Author of newly published FAIR book “Shaken Faith Syndrome” http://www.shakenfaithsyndrome.com/#about
According to FAIR Ash’s words “should not be interpreted as official statements of LDS doctrine, belief or practice.”

[Tennessee Nana]

WARREN ASTON
_________________________________________

The man behind the Yemen discovery is Australian apologist Warren Aston and his wife Michaela. Why is it that when you dig a little deeper into the background of LDS apologists you find crackpots at almost every turn?

Warren Aston runs a travel agency that conducts tours to Arabia. He is also an internationally recognized expert on UFOs!!

The Astons ran a travel agency in Brisbane in the 1990s and published the Yemen discovery in 1994 “In the Footsteps of Lehi: New Evidence for Lehi’s Journey across Arabia to Bountiful” Deseret Book Company. Aston has a vested interest in promoting his Yemen myths because he manages a tour company called Bountiful Tours that runs tours to, you guessed it, the Arabian Peninsula.

His next tour in October 2008 has been promoted in Meridium Magazine 2008 Tour - “In Lehi & Sariah’s Footsteps” 13 days exploring Israel, Jordan and Oman

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/gospe...

Here are some weblinks to his tour company

http://www.bountifultours.com/tour.ht...

You can read a short bio of Aston here.

http://www.bountifultours.com/about.h...

But this is what FARMS would prefer you did not know about Warren Aston. Aston is an internationally recognized expert on UFOs.

Aston speaking at UFO Symposium

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NikV6Y...

Aston describing a UFO encounter in a DVD sold at International UFO Congress

http://www.ufocongressstore.com/servl...

Aston claiming UFO cover-up at Pine Gap (US military base in Australia)

http://www.ufoinfo.com/ufoicq/auforn4...

Quote: “Aston examines the duality within the UFO phenomenon, exobiology, “contactees”, and question what is really happening in abductions while suggesting new reasons for government cover up.”

Aston lecture to Queensland UFO society

http://www.uforq.asn.au/articles/hard...

Lecture entitled “Finding the hard answers to Earth’s greatest mystery within a scientific paradigm” - Warren Aston’s interests include travel (he runs his own travel business in Brisbane), photography, music, theology, feminism and quantum-physics.

Quote: “The evidence that something is happening which defies conventional science is abundant, unambiguous, and is readily available in every category imaginable. UFO’s are a long-term, world-wide, multi-cultural reality with much more physical evidence available than most of us realise. The mounting evidence that UFO’s and aliens are real and are part of the future for all of us deserves our most serious attention and best efforts to understand it.”

Aston: UFO researcher hunting for truth

http://www.helenair.com/articles/2007...

Aston: Are Extraterrestrials Already Among Us? A Review of Historical Accounts. Go to page 8 at this link

http://www.theblackvault.com/encyclop...

[Pan_Yans Wife]

UFO’s?

Oh, I get it! That’s how the “quakers” end up on the moon... with space craft of some sort. ;)

[Tennessee Nana]

Yeppers...

Revelation from tiny green prophets..

:)

[TChris]

The Mormon Church has had a longstanding practice of being less than truthful with respect to their doctrine and history to both members and potential converts.

Uh huh. Mmmm kaaaayyyy.

And the Mormon-bashers are bastions of honesty I suppose?

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

ROFLOL! Sandra Tanner’s little attempt to silence free speech was absolutely reprehensible.

Then you agree that George W. Bush's actions in 1999 were equally reprehesible, right?

Do you agree with Bush's assessment that there 'ought to be limits to freedom'?

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

Seems more to show how anti-Mormons react to parody exactly the same way that liberals react to parody.

Not just liberals. George W. Bush reacted in exactly the same fashion in 1999 when someone parodied his campaign web site.

He, too, is an enemy of free speech.

[MHGinTN]

Interesting analogy ... mormonism is after all a cult trying to protect their ‘political capital’ as it appertains to their ability to deceive and have a one-way debate, their way.

[Zakeet]

And the Mormon-bashers are bastions of honesty I suppose?

I have found Utah Lighthouse Ministry far more credible than the LDS Church

For example, on the matter of the First Vision, the Tanner's have documented with annotations direct from Mormon historical documents the nine different versions of the vision. You can review them at your convenience HERE, where you will see rather profound differences. You will also note the first account did not appear until 1830-31 – and the official account did not appear until 1838 – a full eighteen years after it purportedly happened and at the exact moment when Joseph Smith greatly needed a magnificent event to shore up his authority and silence critics.

Mark Hofmann was a documents forger who foisted several dozen fake documents onto Mormon Church Leadership. Hofmann's amazing discoveries were purchased by devout Mormons and the donated to the Church. Writings favorable to Mormonism were placed on prominent display – writings deemed damaging to the cause were secreted away.

Hofmann's most famous fabrication was the Salamander Letter. In this writing, supposedly by Book of Mormon Witness Martin Harris, a tenth version of the First Vision surfaced. Fortunately for the Mormon Church, the first account of the visitation was extended back in time a full five years to the mid-1820's. Unfortunately for the Church, in this telling Joseph was visited by an elf who took the form of a salamander.

Mormon leadership verified the authenticity of the letter, apparently relying in large part on the opinion of forensic documents examiners. Based on his vast knowledge of Mormonism, Gerald Tanner on the other hand immediately denounced the document as a fraud. Tanner was proven right.

The effects of the Salamander Letter haunt the Mormon Church to this day.

As can be seen in the photograph above, two Mormon Prophets, Ezra Taft Benson and Gordon Hinckley, were among the duped.

President Hinckley would later candidly admit:

I accepted [Hofmann] to come into my office on a basis of trust … I frankly admit that Hofmann tricked us. He also tricked experts from New York to Utah, however … I am not ashamed to admit that we were victimized. It is not the first time the Church has found itself in such a position. Joseph Smith was victimized again and again. The Savior was victimized. I am sorry to say that sometimes it happens. – Dew, S. (1996). Go Forward with Faith: The Biography of Gordon B. Hinckley. Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, p. 432.

But according to LDS doctrine at the time, this was impossible.

In his February 26, 1980 speech at BYU titled Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet, LDS President Ezra Taft Benson maintained the Mormon Church President spoke with inerrant authority on "any matter, temporal or spiritual ," was "not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time," and "would never lead the Church astray".

Following the Hofmann debacle, less than a decade after President Benson's pronouncement, an embarrassed Mormon Church was forced to proclaim:

Prophets are mortal men who have been ordained and chosen by God to be a mouthpiece for revelation and guidance, but that revelation only comes when God wills it, making it somewhat sporadic in both ancient and modern times. There is no expectation that every act, every decision, and every purchase by a prophet will be divinely and infallibly guided. As Joseph Smith said, "a prophet is only a prophet when acting as such." – Jeff Lindsay, The Salamander Letter and Mark Hofmann

The incident also led to the founding and naming of the Salamander Society, an organization founded by disgruntled Mormons for the purpose of Lampooning the LDS faith.

If you desire, I would be pleased to provide additional examples where the Tanner's were more truthful and/or accurate than LDS church leaders.

[ejonesie22]

Ironically, since we use LDS’s own documents most of the time, I wonder what that says about the facts contained there in if we are “liars”....

[Elsie]

Free speech?

Huh?

[Elsie]

 

This suggests to me that you only have a book knowledge of God's word and no personal witness.

I guess these folks "Personal witness" trumped any  "Book Knowledge"!

 

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TRUTH IGNORED

 

 

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Smith, Young, Taylor, Pratt, Snow, Kimball, Woodruff ...

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 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

 

 

1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

 

 

 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

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BEHOLD!!!!  The Restorative Power  of the Book of Mormon!!

 

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THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

 

  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.