Posted on 07/01/2008 10:40:58 AM PDT by wintertime
We must be willing to redefine education. What education looks like now is an artificial construct. It was not created by people who knew or understood children or teens. It was created by bureaucrats and special interests who wanted to control children and teens.
I talked with a young lady the other day – 14-years-old – who loves horses and aims to own stables and teach riding, among other things. She’s been working with horses since she was five. She’s good enough now that she “breaks” new ones and retrains ones facing changes in the use they’re being put to. She knows her stuff.
(snip)
Then there’s her other life – public school. She failed her end-of-year math exam by three points, so she’s going to summer school. She’ll have to pass the test to move on to the next grade. I’ve talked with her. She’s smart and highly competent – just not especially interested in algebra. She’s more accomplished than many adults (even ones who did pass algebra). But she has four more years of school to go, during which time she’ll have to pass endless tests and divert her efforts from what she knows she’ll devote her life to.
(snip) I get many calls a month from parents of teens who simply haven’t managed to fit into the school mold. They’re smart kids, often kids with serious interests they’re prevented from pursuing because so many adults in their lives are running them through the testing/counseling/therapy wringer.
(snip)
In order to redefine education, we will have to engage in some self-liberation, for most of us have a very hard time letting go (I mean really letting go) of the idea that the state knows some secret about education that we don’t and that if we defy their model we just might be sorry.
(snip)
Did your parents or the government know what was best for you?
If we had a completely private system of universal K-12 education, parents, teachers, and principals would be deciding these matters in a private setting.
We probably all know students who acted up in school and did not do the work because they were not sufficiently challenged. The question in this case is simply why the student in the article wanted to pass math? Did she need it for graduation? You have adequately showed that some people do not need the certificate to do what they wish.
My only concern is that many people at the age of 14 - 16 (and older if the truth be told) simply have not decided what it is they want to do. Many are still waiting for that job or class to inspire them. I also know some who knew exactly what they wanted to do only to do it and find that the job was not what they expected.
So the message that should be drawn is to do your best in school, try to find and take the good teachers, and pass the math even if you don’t like it. (I teach math and science).
My parents knew what was best for me. And, that’s all that mattered even when I didn’t agree with them, they were right. And, I know what’s best for my kids and we live our life this way. No teacher or system has control over our kids. And as parents, we only have a certain amount of control, to guide them. There comes a time when it really is up to them to decide their path.
I’m all for Catholic schools/private schools. Hell, I attended k-12 Catholic school. My kids attend k-8 catholic. It certainly wasn’t perfect. It was like a prison, back in the 70s and 80s, now it’s like a freakin resort. However, it taught me tons and most importantly, it taught me that life wasn’t all about me.
I’m all for deciding this in a private setting. Unfortunately, parents have made the schools, public and catholic and private, a babysitter and the parent for their kids. Not all parents, of course. But, far too many. They expect the schools to raise their kids. And we wonder why the schools have taken over in parenting students, rme.
Let me know when an all k-12 private school system is in place. And, how well that works out. I’m sure the funding will be interesting, given we fund our k-8 catholic school and it’s a constant battle for funding.
I’m all for homeschooling. Shame you and others aren’t as generous when it comes to other education choices.
Seriously, do you think any of those inner city kids and more than a few suburbia kids would get any kind of education if it were left to their parents? Those drug addicted, scum, low life parents? When’s the last time you were in philly? Or Camden? Do you really think those kids would be better off without a “government” school? You all can spout that nonsense all you want but it’s clear you have no idea what the world is like today.
And despite what you and those who follow you think or feel, there ARE excellent Catholic and public schools. Certainly not perfect, but we all know ain’t nothin’ perfect anyway.
What about college? Should college also be private? I attended Penn State, a STATE SCHOOL. It didn’t turn me into a liberal/socialist/marxist.
You do rock, Verga. Shame even the half way decent homeschoolers fail to realize this or realize the absurdity of so many that post this crap.
I’m thinking it’s a hopeless cause, sorta like trying to convince some that Obama isn’t the freakin’ 2nd Coming.
I especially like the whole *police with guns* thing. Coming from a family of cops, never heard of an incidence where they went guns blazing to make sure a kid went to school, lol.
In our county, I've never heard of the police going to the homes of people who didn't send their children to school, but I do know that we have a nice matronly-looking lady with a no-nonsense attitude who will show up and ask why -- IF the student is registered at our school but isn't coming to school.
On the other hand, if a parent withdraws a student to homeschool him or her, that's fine too. I know several home-schooling families, and I've never heard of anyone showing up to monitor the lessons.
We have truant officers, mostly they police the malls. Not that anything comes out of that either.
A truant officer will show up at your door (here) if there was a complaint (and some neighbors do complain about that, kids out of school, or anything else, even tried to talk some out of that). And the truant officer isn’t armed, btw.
So a truant officer will show up at a home, and then it’s done. Nothing happens.
In our area, cops have way more to deal with than kids who don’t go to school.
I only know of a couple home schooled kids and never has a cop, armed, shown up at their home.
I believe you! Learning to manage a budget is an important and useful skill. More students would be interested in math if they studied it as it applies to their real lives.
One of my sons is a math whiz, but he detests the subject. He hates doing those boring exercises. He prefers the material presented in an interesting way. For example, he always enjoyed stories that teach math. Once I handed him a workbook on personal finance, and he loved it.
If you know any good, affordable books on that subject for the high school level, please feel free to recommend them. :-)
An economics teacher I knew used to have his students do a project. I don’t recall how they ended up with their jobs: I don’t know if each student selected one, if they were drawn out of a hat, or assigned. Each job had an average starting gross income. They may have also been assigned a pretend spouse and number of children.
The students had to determine first how much would be withheld from this salary for taxes, and so what the net income would be. From the net income, they had to determine a budget, and use information such as local real estate and rental guides to determine where they could afford to live and whether they could buy a home or needed to rent. They also had to figure out what sort of car they could afford to own, how much they would need to pay for food, whether they were going to save any money, how much was left over for entertainment, etc.
The project was quite eye-opening for some of the students - they had assumed that after graduation they would get a job and be wealthy, but very few of the “paychecks” went as far as most of the students had hoped.
In case anyone had the impression I was suggesting algebra isn't necessary when I typed,
“Instead of requiring Algebra, Geometry, etc., I’d like to see the same math covered but organized according to: Financial Investments, Real Estate, Business, Building & Construction, etc.,"
I want to make it more clear: In my personal opinion, all of those courses should be covered, but they should be organized differently. IOW, instead of the material being organized into courses called Algebra, Geometry, etc., the same material could be organized into courses that apply to everyday life.
I'll put it this way: What would capture the students' interest more? Telling them they must learn the material to pass a test? Or, telling them they are learning the material so they can buy or build a house, invest money, manage a business, etc.?
There are math programs available right now that use real-life applications, but critics say they aren't effective. The problem isn't that real-life applications are used; the problem seems to be that they rely too heavily on calculator use, for example. Many people would like to see a better, more intensive math program using real-life applications.
Exactly. That sounds like an effective project. I’d like to see an entire math curriculum use real-life applications. Not just personal finance, either, but mathematics as it applies to many different careers. (I haven’t found one yet.)
It is actually REALLY fun!~
I don’t use a book though...
I make it up...
First I tell them that they have to have an apartment...
To find what they “want” and then send me links...
(I open a folder for each of them on my server...we keep all of their info (not personal) in their folder and they get to print it all out and keep it)..
Then...we discuss wages and (some) taxes...
Then we discuss room-mates...
(we also throw in some practical...let’s discuss what makes a good/bad room-mate.....it’s a good chance to talk about life...choices and their (mostly) crummy parents...)
We discuss 1 vs 2 vs 3 room-mates...and how possibly getting a house to rent is an idea..
We then go through making an Excel table.
(Totally fun because they can frequently show ME stuff...I give extra credit for teaching the teacher...)
Then, we go through things like cars and insurance etc...
THEN...we get into checking accounts and reconciling your account...(much different than when I was a kid..since MANY will never likely have checks)...
We also talk a TON about savings...these are NOT kids who come from families who save money..at all...
We have probably 1 whole WEEK on Credit Cards...and the traps...
I make them all find a story online of a credit card disaster story and they get to share it...
We spend a BUNCH of time working out percents and interest...and what “compounded” means...
Anyway...I also have them practice filling out forms...tons of forms..
They have a list to chose from...and they have to pick 10 and fill them out...
Bank account #’s
SS#’s
Names
Addresses
References
Etc...
(usually, depending on the make up of the group..I then TAKE their info (which they have freely given me on their work), and fill it in on some bogus application for a Target card or whatever...trying to illustrate just how easy it is to get phished)...
So...
It’s a really “good” time...sometimes we finish off with a game of Life...and I offer them an ice cream party...or, they can put their “party” in “the bank” and watch it grow into pizza at the end of the year/semester...
Also...we do a “thing” on Starbucks...and pretend to invest $4.00 per week to see JUST HOW MUCH 1 coffee per week would be worth when you’re 53 years old (invested at 35 years at an aggressive 12% return compounded monthly..)
(it’s $13,500 by the way)...
We talk about buying houses...and interest rates...points...closing costs...different loans...
etc..
Really a FUN, FUN time for all...
I’ve had a speaker come out from the bank to talk to them..
They always bring magnets...would you guess that high school kids still like getting magnets?
Really funny...
Anyway...enough of my BOOK!
:-)
Can you tell I LIKE my job???
That sounds like a fun program. I’ll bet the students do enjoy it.
The workbook my son used last year was middle school-level, but it had the same types of exercises, such as filling out applications for a job and an apartment, opening a bank account, managing a budget, etc. He loved it, but it wasn’t as extensive as the project you described.
Well...I’m a big talker...and I used to use a book.....
This group is not known for their proficient pencil and paper skills...so I try to play to their strength..(computer skills)...
It also gives me TONS of leverage because if they goof off..or don’t get their work done...I threaten them with workbooks....
LOL!
As far as the other subjects...we practice simple Algebra and Geometry...
I NEVER call them by name until after we learn the concept...
We practice buying carpet for our houses and sod for our baseball fields.....
For them, it’s EXACTLY as you say. It has to be “real life” or they’re gone...
I was the doctor in a health clinic at K and A and at Hunting Park for about 6 months in 1999.
I was born and raised in Kensington. Attended St. John of Arc.
One of the reasons we homeschool is the condescending attitude toward African Americans in the school system. (Note: I'm not saying every teacher and administrator has it, but statements like the one above reflect the general attitude.) Outside the school system, my children have not been taught to see themselves as victims. Two are still very young, but the eldest at 12 has learned a self-reliance that will carry him through life. He is largely self-taught, and he always has excelled in his studies. An increasing number of black families are opting for home education, and their children are doing well.
It is fortunate that you are wealthy enough to be able to afford, but not everyone has that luxury
It's a myth that we're all wealthy. I do know single parent families homeschooling, and most of the homeschool families I've met struggle financially. Some are very poor; some have lost everything in tragedies; some are seriously ill. But homeschooling works for them. It's not terribly expensive, unless you make it so.
I think Wintertime has been pretty clear in saying some children - such as those coming from neglectful and/or abusive home environments - do need public school. (Correct me if I’m wrong, Wintertime.)
But the vast majority of parents are not crack-addicted abusers.
getting out was enough for my kids... and we, as a family, are redefining education... today, during our summertime homeschool, my boys studied math, history—which covered Bible, Greek Mythology and Famous Men of Rome—and a fun geography lesson that included online learning... they spent a couple of hours reading, then they went out to play baseball... on top of that, we spent 2 hours at the local nursery looking at olive trees and other plantings... while we were there, they found a couple of sticks on the ground and pretended they were knights... they had so much fun, they want to do it all again tomorrow... except they want to include poetry and Latin... i love our family life...
Then you know the area and what it’s like now. It was nasty 20/30 yrs ago and it’s worse now.
As you said, St. Joan’s school closed a few years ago. My two youngest were baptized there in 96-98 when my cousin was Pastor there.
Since you’re familiar with the area, and it’s not the worst area in Philly, although it sucks big time, you’re aware that Catholic schooling has failed there and home schooling isn’t even an option for these kids. What is the answer or solution for the kids in that area? We know most of the parents aren’t going to educate their kids so what’s next for them? The Catholic parish school closed so they don’t have that option anymore. And we know the parents aren’t even capable of educating the kids as they barely function as it is. What’s the answer for those kids?
Many of the Catholic and private grade schools have closed or are closing in South Philly, an area that is still able to survive. Most neighborhoods in South Philly are still considered elite areas as opposed to those in the K & A area (and we’re not even talking about North and West Philly). What’s the solution for those kids? Homeschooling isn’t the answer, Catholic schools aren’t the answer as they’re closing at record rates.
I was born and raised in the ghetto, inner city, and moved out for a reason. I had parents that valued education and hard work and doing for oneself.
The area you were born and raised is far different today. Most of those kids aren’t even looking to graduating high school, let alone college. They’re trying not to get shot in a drive by or beat up in a fight. Worse, many of those parents don’t even care or don’t know any better. Most of those parents can’t even raise their kids in the most basic manner, let alone thinking about educating them.
You may not agree with the rights of parents to make decisions about education for their children, but wintertime isn’t lying about the police.
I personally know a homeschool mom who was faced with the police at her door. (A neighbor called because the children were outside playing during school hours.)
There are stories about the police sent to the doors of homeschool families. That doesn’t mean guns are blazing and bullets are flying. Even in cases where only a social worker is sent to the door, suppose that family refused to cooperate with the demands. Of course, the police would become involved eventually.
Here are some articles about homeschoolers arrested for homeschooling:
http://www.educationreport.org/pubs/mer/article.aspx?ID=4611
http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/200801140.asp
There have been plenty of articles right here on this forum about homeschoolers ordered to put their kids into school, such as:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1940251/posts
I need to get to sleep. Oh, why did I check in tonight? :-) But I have to comment on your last post...
My MIL is a retired schoolteacher living in North Philly, and she knows parents there who are homeschooling with success. That’s how they keep their kids out of troubled schools. I’m told those parents use K-12 cyberschool, but in any case, it’s still considered home education.
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