Posted on 05/17/2008 2:03:48 AM PDT by MartinaMisc
It was fun while it lasted.
The guaranteed election of a non-conservative President on November 4th represents the end of the conservative movement in America. Neither Barack Obama nor John McCain stands for Reagan principles in any way, shape, manner or form—and after twenty years of non-conservative Presidents, it’s obvious that the Reagan era will never, ever return.
The conservative movement has been in the hospital for nearly two decades. Once George H. W. Bush—a good, moral man, but not a true conservative—entered the White House, conservative principles slowly but surely began to leave. Yes, he gave us a victory in the Gulf War and Clarence Thomas, but he also gave us a broken no-new-taxes promise and David Souter. Bush was more Rockefeller than Goldwater, during a time when America and the world needed more of the latter and less of the former.
Bill Clinton replaced Bush in 1993 and, during his eight years in office, stole certain conservative concepts (NAFTA, welfare reform) and destroyed others (judicial restraint, the rule of law). Clinton moved the country in a secular direction, helping to make the 1990s as culturally loose as the 1980s were culturally traditional. Clinton also seemed obsessed with, among other things, promoting the notion that the Reagan era was a fluke, and that (despite his famous 1996 claim) big government was a permanent reality.
(Excerpt) Read more at humanevents.com ...
That is not a Conservative statement. Rush has done more for Conservatism than any man since Reagan.
LLS
Likewise, the "mountain west" was Republican for 40 years after the CW; flipped Dem off and on for 20; then resumed a GOP character from 1964-1992.
The point is, American politics is not linear. It's sometimes cyclical, but nothing stays the same for long. No party, no matter how powerful or ensconced it appears to be, maintains its grip permanently. Even during the "New Deal" coalition that followed Roosevelt, from 1952-2008, the GOP held the presidency for almost half that time, just as during Republican domination of the post-Civil War era, Cleveland got elected twice, and two other Dems (Hayes and Cleveland again) came very close to winning.
Martinamisc wrote:
““..it’s obvious that the Reagan era will never, ever return.”
And TalBlack replied:
The ‘Reagan era’ was the last flare of a possibility that our culture can no longer deliver. Ronald Reagan is what was”
Indeed. The likes of Mr. Reagan are unlikely to return any time soon, if ever. Like the sinking of the Titanic, his ascension to political and philosophical power, and his passing, mark the changing of the eras for America as clearly as the Titanic symbolized the end of the ways of the 19th Century for the coming 20th.
I have written this before, but I’ll say it again:
The American electorate that elected Ronald Reagan in 1980 no longer exists, nor will it be coming back.
The reason is simple, very base, but undeniable:
America is changing - demographically and ethnically - into a nation that no longer supports conservatism, nor is capable of creating new, budding young conservatives in other than small (and shrinking) numbers.
It may be controversial and provocative to say so, but I believe “the nature of conservatism” (at least in America) is somewhat ethnically-based, amongst the Euro-migrants that came here in years past. But those folks are no longer coming. The ones who ARE arriving don’t have an ethnic/cultural “heritage of conservatism” and will be far more likely to be captivated by the “demagogues of promise and spoils”, exactly the kind of type the democrats will run in 2008.
This isn’t to say that there won’t _be_ “conservatives” in the coming years. What it DOES imply is that conservatives will have a muted voice in American politics for years to come. The voice will still be there, but fewer will be listening or take heed.
I sense that the underlying thrust of the ‘rats if Obama wins will be to enact laws and policies that on their foundations are designed to thwart the chances of conservatives ever overturning such policies, or of diminishing them in any meaninful way. If they are successful, conservatism may shrink into the White Dwarf of American politics, ever-in-danger of being swallowed up by the black holes.
I’ll make a prediction, and invite others to shoot my reasoning down:
The only way true conservatism will ever sweep over America again, is by the force of arms.
Either arms and weapons that are used _against_ us, or by those used _by us_ in a new civil conflict.
- John
I have not been a fan of Ron Paul but I must concede that he has a belief system grounded in a higher principle directed towards good government. Unlike Limbaugh who exercises enormous influence but distorts the political agenda into a vaudeville side show. Perhaps I should pay closer attention to what Mr. Paul has been advocating.
So long as you keep repeating that as a plank of the conservative view of the world, rank and file folks who work for a living will run away screaming. The current mess that we see right now did not just start. The problems of inflation, underreported by the government, has been festering for a long time, and it has finally erupted.
When you attempt to ignore or minimize the impact of rapidly rising commodities prices on the economy you just make yourself out to be a deliberate liar.
Well you think wrong. "It's the economy stupid"
I voted for him in the FL primary. Hunter had dropped out by then, my first choice.
Some people have a problem with his views on the war,wrote him off. His views on the war are my ONLY problem with him, so he got my vote.
On balance, I’d choose Ron Paul over McCain any day, anywhere.
So what happens to us? Do we just become dust in the wind and go “poof”?
I have written this before, but I’ll say it again:
“The American electorate that elected Ronald Reagan in 1980 no longer exists, nor will it be coming back.
The reason is simple, very base, but undeniable:
America is changing - demographically and ethnically - into a nation that no longer supports conservatism, nor is capable of creating new, budding young conservatives in other than small (and shrinking) numbers.”
That’s been the plan all along!
“My only hope is McCain chooses a strong conservative VP, wins, stays 1 term, and the conservative prevails. Not a high probability of this scenario happening.”
I was gonna say...McCain-Cheney but that wouldn’t even be close to shooting fish in a barrel.
Yep! And the poor, hapless GOP has been led around on a leash for nearly fifty years on this issue. From Everett Dirksen to John McCain, these Republican leaders have gone along with every demographic sell-out of our country that the Democrats came up with. The same thing happened forty years ago in England when Enoch Powell got booted from the Tory Party. At the same time, our young people were propagandized to hate their heritage and to regard “abortion rights”, “sexual freedom”, and “gay rights” as the highest expressions of liberty (far more important than free speech, freedom of religion, or the right to self-government). The result is the impending loss of Western Civilization.
And in typical Orwellian fashion, the people who have resisted this government-driven agenda to undermine our culture are the ones accused of “starting a culture war”.
And it ain't over now.'Cause when the going gets tough...
the tough get going! Who's with me? Let's go! Come on!
Truly inspirational. Let's take back our party and country.
Sorry, but you’re wrong on a number of issues, certainly in the case of Britain.
i. Britain has never had any social conservatives in positions of power to purge;
ii. Britain has been governed by leftists for only 20 of the past 58 years, and by socialists for only 11 of the past 58 years (1964-70 and 1974-79) - both periods were truly calamitous for Britain - you’re right there;
iii. the Tory-type party IS the default in Britain - Britain remains at it’s core a deeply conservative country - just not a socially conservative one;
iv. there is no “drive to the left”. In fact, Blair, in many ways, was the best thing to happen to conservatism in Britain in the last 100 years;
v. Thatchers reforms will not and cannot be washed away - her key reforms were economic, and those reforms have the full support of 99% of the politicians and 90% of the people of the UK;
vi. the EU is a great deal more circumspect about arrogating power from nation states these days, so actually, I think “England” has some way to run yet - after all, we’ve survived in our current form for almost a millenium so far.
You seem to be a socon of the most emphatic kind - your views are now toxic to large segments of the American population. That’s why McCain has thrown you under the bus, and why Republicans of all stripes have thrown W under the bus. You’re toxic.
You’re absolutely within your rights to try to influence politicians to your way of thinking, but 2000 - 2006 was the time - unfortunately, instead of cementing a truly conservative polity, Bush was building up big-gubmint conservatism, and congressional Republicans, aided by lobbyists, were plundering the treasury and fiddling with pageboys.
I agree with your post. Except I think the greening of America is way out of control.
Icons are at the core of all belief systems. They are merely the symbols representing a shared meaning. All political movements have their iconic leaders, without them there is no foundation for a shared understanding. When someone like Limbaugh presumes to hijack the conservative agenda and proclaims himself as the true “doctor of democracy,” we have an image problem. Politics is not show business. What does it mean to repeat “liberal, liberal, liberal” over and over again? It means nothing. Limbaugh is not just the self proclaimed icon of conservatism, he is also the symbol for conservative talk radio. Up and down the radio dial conservative talk radio (led by Limbaugh) is preparing the laundry of Republicans who caused the downfall. Not once have you heard any of them say that perhaps conservative talk radio itself contributed to the rigidity that is at the root of Republican election anxiety.
As I said before Limbaugh kept the Foley story alive by making it a partisan issue. The only option for Republicans was to condemn Foley and move on. He gave Michael J Fox enormous credibility by trying to bully him. Fox is a very sympathetic spokesperson, the public liked him a lot. I kept thinking why doesn’t somebody just tell Limbaugh to just shut up. The issue was never about Limbaugh, even among conservatives there is a broad range of opinion and nuance around the subject of stem cell research.
So, here we are again in another election cycle and Limbaugh once again is trying to impose himself as the ultimate interpreter of conservative orthodoxy. I just wish he would go on holiday for six months.
Nazis?
Forget it, he's rolling.
~Animal House, of course.
I was with you until you started suggesting violent insurrection as a way of overcoming the democratic will !!
You’re right - America is changing - Conservatives HAVE to respond to this challenge. Conservative values are too precious to lose - if America is lost, the whole world is lost - I live in the UK, and belive me, no-one takes individual rights seriously - here, individual rights count as radicalism.
Conservatives have got to respond with a positive vision of personal responsibility, liberty, opportunity, democracy. But we also have to understand the concerns of the people who are not like us, without fear of being tarred with the RINO label. What are conservatives saying to Latino’s suburban moms struggling to pay college or health-care, an IT man who lost his job to Bangalore ? Exactly the kind of people we need to vote for conservative values.
In any case, I’m not sure it actually matters this time around. Sadly, the Republican brand has become so tainted, and Bush has been palpably running down the clock for so long, that I fear we conservatives will have nobody to listen to us even if we do alight on a meaningful message.
A Phyrric one, in hindsight.
I think people can handle the fact that the economy moves in cycles and if you have a few great years there is a need for a cooling off. But, it will drive people crazy if you tell them everything is great when it is not. They either think your lying to them or you just don’t understand the reality of what is happening in the everyday world.
Exactamundo.
With Limbaugh, Coulter, Malkin et al as the self-appointed “spokespeople” for Conservatives, we’re doomed. Their views are repellent to, I would guess, as a minimum, 60% of the American people right now.
Put them out there in the Autumn, and conservatives will have a tougher time than we have already. Send the 3 of them to Iraq until after the election - they can report back on how fine and dandy things are over there.
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