Posted on 05/06/2008 6:36:34 PM PDT by Revelation 911
The Catholic Church has ordered dioceses across the globe not to give information in parish registers to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Vatican Congregation for Clergy issued a letter directing all Catholic bishops to keep LDS members from microfilming and digitizing information in registers, according to the Catholic News Service.
CNS reported the Vatican had "grave reservations" about the LDS Church's practice of posthumous baptisms by proxy, a practice in which the names of the deceased are baptized into the LDS faith so that they may be united in the afterlife with LDS families, if they so choose.
Father James Massa, executive director of the U.S. bishop's Secretariat of Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs is quoted by CNS as saying the step was taken to prevent LDS members from using the records.
"The congregation requests that the conference notifies each diocesan bishop in order to ensure that such a detrimental practice is not permitted in his territory, due to the confidentiality of the faithful and as not to cooperate with the erroneous practices of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," CNS reports the Vatican letter stating.
Story continues below The letter was issued April 5, 10 days before Pope Benedict XVI's U.S. visit, which included an ecumenical prayer service attended by two LDS leaders. CNS reports this was the first time Mormons had participated in a papal prayer service. LDS Church spokesman Scott Trotter said the LDS First Presidency hadn't had a chance to review the actual letter. "We haven't seen the letter yet, so it's premature to say anything," Trotter said. Church spokesman Mike Otterson said the church may have more to say on the subject later in the week and that LDS officials had not yet made contact with Vatican representatives about the issue.
Father Massa is quoted as saying he could see how the move could strain relations between the two churches. "It certainly has that potential," CNS quotes Father Massa as saying. "But I would also say that the purpose of interreligious dialogue is not to only identify agreements, but also to understand our differences. As Catholics, we have to make very clear to them their practice of so-called rebaptism is unacceptable from the standpoint of Catholic truth."
CNS quotes Msgr. J. Terrence Fitzgerald, vicar general of the Diocese of Salt Lake City, as saying he didn't understand why the LDS church was singled out by the Vatican letter. "We have a policy not to give out baptismal records to anyone unless they are entitled to have them," Msgr. Fitzgerald told CNS. "That isn't just for the Church of the Latter-day Saints. That is for all groups."
The move by the Vatican could have a profound impact on the ability of genealogy researchers to trace many family histories.
Russell Bangerter has been doing professional genealogy research since 1979 and has a degree in genealogy family history from BYU. Bangerter said his clients, from many faiths, all have an interest in creating a bond with their heritage.
"Some of them are LDS and some of them are not LDS. They simply just want to know their roots," Bangerter said.
He said he has used parish registers in his research before. Bangerter said a typical parish register, Catholic as well as those of other Christian faiths, contain christening and birth data, marriage data as well as deaths and burial information.
Bangerter said much of his research doesn't have anything to do with religious work, and closing those records simply hurts families who want to know their roots.
"There's also the ecumenical side of things," Bangerter said. He points to the LDS Church's own Family History Library, in which people from all walks of life are welcome to access data. "I've seen all kinds of people there. I've seen rabbis, I've seen nuns and I've seen priests there as well."
They also claim "special knowledge" on the part of "church" leaders which supercedes Bible scripture. Both are just new age gnosticism.
More like 40 minutes. Suffice to say the deletions were completely appropriate. It's only the 2nd time I've ever reported abuse since 1998. I suspect the mods would have deleted it without my report. The language didn't reflect well on the FR community.
ok, likewise I dont surf 24/7....Ive got this crazy habit called meals.....
I requested the thread locked because of it, however the mod has unlocked it without explanation
Mod, is there an explanation ?
Mod, is there an explanation ?
can I have the courtesy of a response - public or private ?
More like they choose not to participate in your creepiness.
An opt-out option is useless to those who do not know what is being done.
But you know basically no one would opt-in.
And where is your concern for those who might feel some ersatz baptism of their dead ancestors crosses the line of decency?
Oh, that’s interesting since baptism for the dead is mentioned in the Bible. What else is “creepy” to you that’s in the Bible?
Only if your translation of that verse is warped through a peepstone.
What does the one have to do with the other? I wasn't the one throwing F-bombs around.
We don't think proxy baptisms cross any line of decency. Sorry you disagree. But we do not apologize for it, nor are we likely to stop doing it anytime soon.
Decency.
We don't think proxy baptisms cross any line of decency.
Oh, I know that.
But descendants might.
Too bad. We won’t change our doctrine just because some take offense.
charming spiritual fruits.....I dont think Ive ever heard a more pompous self righteous, arrogant, insensitive response
...You know, you're right, that did come out rather insensitive, and I apologize.
The thing is, we're in kind of a difficult position. We have this doctrine of proxy ordinances, that we believe in and hold dear, and yet at the same time, we realize it offends some people. So, we're left with a choice. Do we offend God, or do we offend our fellow man? Do we abandon our practices and beliefs, because some people take offense, or do we stick to what we believe? I know what I will do. I will stick with what I believe.
I appreciate that it does offend some people, and I'm sorry about that, I wish it didn't, but that's the way it is.
fair enough
and likewise, the frustration on this side is that the belief is ferevent while the personal investigation and discernment is lacking any introspection as to validity.
Creeds are rejected as man made, yet professions of personal faith in Christ are encouraged....both are the same.....what is it about creeds that displeasure you theologically regarding the Nicene specifically ?
Then we have the issue of the Bible's position on the errancy of would be prophets, weighed against several of Smith's failed prophecy.....
We see passion and faith, but it lacks any investigation, or introspection.....instead, we (non mormons) see a position taken of victimhood, and a stubborn streak that denies ANY articles of doctrine as uncomfortable, or squeammish.....I think you'll find both Catholics (which I think Petronski is) or Evangelical Protestants (myself), admitting there are aspects of the Church doctrine which upon investigation, make us question it's validity, be it purgatory, indulgences, relics, or Calvinism, or Wesleyanism...
I don't know about displeasure per se, I'd just call it "disagreement". Specifically, the line about "being of one substance with the Father", as you know LDS disagrees with point.
we (non mormons) see a position taken of victimhood,
Yes, I've noticed it here on FR myself. But I understand it, given our history.
and a stubborn streak that denies ANY articles of doctrine as uncomfortable, or squeammish.....
Don't get me wrong, there's definitely articles of doctrine of my church that I'm not perfectly comfortable with - polygamy for instance. I admit I don't know all the answers, there's TONS I don't know. But I don't let the fact that I don't know all the answers keep me from embracing the faith that's meant so much to me in my life. So I just kind of accept those things I don't understand, and try to let my faith carry me through.
does that faith have a cultural, or social basis or is it based on the Holy Spirits work in your heart?
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