Posted on 04/21/2008 6:19:21 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
SAN ANGELO, Texas — A judge wants attorneys representing FLDS mothers and children to ask local LDS congregations if they would be willing to "provide a buffer" for FLDS members who wish to pray in groups at a temporary shelter. Judge Barbara Walther made the decision late Monday afternoon at a hearing to address three issues brought by attorneys representing mothers of children who remain in a state shelter. A total of 416 children were removed from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch earlier this month as part of a child-abuse investigation.
The group of mothers filed court papers earlier Monday demanding their rights to pray in private without having a Texas Department of Family and Protective Services worker overseeing them. They also filed a motion asking the judge to allow them to stay with their nursing children and asked for access to telephones to communicate with their attorneys.
Addressing the concerns about prayer, Walther said she was aware of a community of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in San Angelo. While acknowledging LDS Church members are not from the same group, she asked attorneys to see if the LDS faith would be willing to monitor the prayer services of the women and children who remain in the shelter.
"How would I stop someone from practicing their faith?" the judge asked. She acknowledged concerns from Texas child welfare authorities about improper communications between mothers and children that could occur in such private prayer times and have an affect on the pending investigations.
"If they cross the line or coach the child or make any kind of comment on litigation, all bets are off," Walther said.
The president of the LDS Abilene Texas Stake, which oversees San Angelo, was surprised by the judge's request.
"They think we're the same ones because we use the Book of Mormon," said Charles L. Webb. "I'm dumbfounded they would suggest that."
Webb plans to contact church headquarters in Salt Lake City for guidance.
The judge did say if that fails, she would look at other options.
Regarding breast-feeding, the judge said attorneys ad litem should be working with Texas child protective services workers in mediation to solve that problem, declining to consider the motion to order that nursing mothers remain in the shelter with their children.
Last week, mothers of children over 4 years old were separated from their children and sent back to their homes. Texas child welfare officials have said the mothers that remain with their young children in the temporary shelters will eventually be separated as foster families and foster homes are located.
On the issue of the FLDS women and children being allowed contact with attorneys, the judge ordered eight phone lines to be set up — six for the children and two for the mothers — with 24-hour access to their attorneys.
Lawyers for Department of Family and Protective Services said they had already set up the phone lines earlier Monday.
At the end of the hearing, an attorney asked the judge to consider her motion to stop the separation of mothers from their children. The judge said she hadn't seen the motion, noting that she had a large stack of motions to go over.
When the attorney pressed her to consider it immediately, Walther stood up and announced, "Ladies and gentleman, this hearing is concluded," and abruptly left the bench.
In the motion, attorney Andrea Sloan asked the judge to allow the women and children 30 minutes in the morning and again at night to pray in private. "Without exception, respondent mothers have reported that the department will not let them pray without being monitored by the department," Sloan wrote.
Attorneys were also pushing to keep a group of nursing mothers from being separated from their children, pending the results of DNA testing currently under way in San Angelo. "Some of respondent mothers are currently parenting children under the age of 2 years of age and are still breast-feeding," the motion stated.
The women's attorneys also filed motions arguing that when cell phones were taken from the women, they lost the ability to communicate effectively with their clients. The cell phones were taken the day after members of the FLDS Church inside the Fort Concho shelter spoke out to the Deseret News, complaining of cramped conditions.
The women provided the Deseret News with photographs taken by a cell phone to show the conditions. Shortly afterward, they were all moved to the San Angelo Coliseum, where some of the children have remained.
The motions were filed in 51st District Court today by attorneys for Charlotte Johnson, Suzanne Johnson, Sarah Johnson, Angela Harker and other mothers of children taken from the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado.
Authorities began collecting DNA samples Monday morning from children taken from the ranch, the Texas Attorney General's Office said.
The children were to be given a cheek swab, then photographed and fingerprinted. They have each been assigned a number to identify them and the sample they gave.
"We began the process this morning and anticipate working on this throughout the week," said Janece Rolfe, a spokeswoman for the Texas attorney general. "It will be about 30 days to receive results, maybe a little longer."
Judge Barbara Walther signed court papers this morning ordering the DNA samples.
"The Court finds that an unknown number of males of reproductive age reside, or have resided, at the ranch during the probable time of conception of one or more of the children the subject of this suit," her order says. "The court further finds that an unknown number of females of child bearing age reside, or have resided at the ranch and could be the mother of one or more children the subject of this suit."
The order lists the hundreds of names of parents and children that are known at the YFZ Ranch, including FLDS leader Warren Jeffs, who it lists as being in "prison."
The parents on the YFZ Ranch are expected to show up at the Schleicher County Memorial Building in Eldorado on Tuesday to give a DNA sample. At the makeshift shelter at the San Angelo Coliseum and the Cal Farley Boy's Ranch, where the FLDS children have been staying since they were taken into state custody, children were giving samples.
The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services said it is still having trouble identifying individual children and who their parents are.
"We're still not getting names," said child protective services spokesman Greg Cunningham. "We don't know who are siblings, mothers, fathers."
The raid on the YFZ Ranch was prompted by a phone call to a San Angelo family crisis center from a 16-year-old girl who claimed she was abused, pregnant and married to a 50-year-old man. Authorities have not been able to identify her, but said that when they went onto the ranch to investigate the complaint they found signs of other children being abused.
That led to the judge's order removing all 416 children from the ranch. Last week, Walther ordered that all children will remain in state custody.
Once the DNA samples are gathered, Cunningham said they will move forward with placing the children in foster care.
"We've got some of the placements lined up, but we're still waiting for some guidance from the court," he said.
Child protective services said the children will be kept in groups, including teenage mothers with their children and siblings grouped together. The children would likely not be going to a typical foster home, Cunningham said.
"It's a home-type setting. A majority of them would go to a residential facility," he said. "There are several different options out there."
Authorities refused to discuss how the children would be transitioned from the San Angelo Coliseum to foster care because of security reasons.
Outside the coliseum today, the police presence has been heavy. Texas state troopers, Tom Green County sheriff's deputies, San Angelo police and unmarked patrol cars have all been seen circling the large parking lot surrounding the building.
How dramatic! When I gave birth to my children, they were given arm bands with NUMBERS on them to help keep track of them in the nursery and make certain that they were joined with the correct mother. (shudder!)
Did they also incarcerate you and your child? I think not. It’s just a spooky coincidence that came to mind.
Hmmm... which cellblock are they keeping these children in?
I think not.
The state gov’t built a crematorium where? I doubt that, there are plenty of commercial ones available.
the San Angelo Coliseum
Over dramatizing the facts does not make them more sinister.
“You may consider these folks to be Christians.
I don’t.”
It is NOT about what they are. It IS about what they do.
Which is to conspire and deliberatly violate laws concerning underage sex.
The states have thus far been remiss, to not have pursued this aspect.
Good for Texas to do in four years what Utah, Arizona, British Columbia have failed to do until recently.
On another note— I expect some of the men will avoid DNA, simply because it will be proof of their guilt, when put alongside the other evidence being assembled.
They can see where their big prophet is, and that doesn’t look very appealing.
I can imagine suburbans heading back to the Arizona strip.
Just about all of the various media reports about the fLDS "lost boys" (turned-out teen boys) show that the exile of teen boys within this sub-culture is an ongoing turnstile. (I find it rather sad that the johnny-come-lately emotion-based crowd has rarely cried any tears for these male teen Joe Doe Mormons...who for them, there never was any end in sight).
The State of Texas is exceeding its authority and we have seen little proof of more than a few child mothers.
The last reports I saw last weekend were: 5 pregnant underaged girls; 10 women who were impregnated as minors several years ago. (More than enough initial evidence of systematic rape)
I find it hard to believe that so many folks go out of their way to protect hardened systematic pedophiles who abuse their authority. Here so many people, including FReepers spoke out against abusive Roman Catholic priests. (Can you imagine the outcry if even just one of these priests lived in an fLDS like dorm with so many minors present?)
Here so many FReepers don't defend the onslaught of male & female educators every month around the country (there's been literally DOZENS of such threads) who abuse their authority & commit statutory rape, molestation, inappropriate e-mails with students.
So while the RC priests & the educators don't get such high-velocity advocacy from the "due-process" and anti-govt folks, the fLDS leaders who...
...order which minors to marry which already-married men (illegal pedophilia--statutory rape);
...order which older teens to marry which already-married men (illegal activity of polygamy);
...engage in solemnizing these mock weddings...
...all receive plenty of octane from the immoral, amoral libertarians.
No. Warren Jeffs had a crematorium built at the FLDS compound in Texas, after he and his members moved in.
“It is NOT about what they are. It IS about what they do.”
Very true.
Wonder why so many expend such effort to convince everyone that this is about ‘what they are’.
Frankly, I could care less what they call themselves, or what religion they chose to hide these practices behind.
This judge sure is insulting to the Nth degree. Ask the LDS to monitor the FLDS?????!?!?!?!?!?!?! I am so furious and disgusted at this suggestion it is making my blood boil!
“The real problem is the deception on the part of the mothers.”
I have read that fear is a big motivator, in cults like this. The “prophets” threaten people with great harm, if they fail to be in 100% compliance with his orders.
Such orders would include mothers who give any information about fathers.
But I expect some of the mothers will see this ordeal as a chance to break out of the cycle. Perhaps Texas is offering some kind of witness protection.
Putting together some help from a few mothers, and DNA could unravel a lot of the relationships.
And while I hope they get all of the men who commited statutory rape of girls, I also hope some older women are charged as accomplices.
This is an offshoot of the Warren Jeffs outfit. Before his death, Jeffs’ father directed them to stop the business with underage females, but Warren defied this instruction.
Child's Play: Foster Care's Fiasco
Comptroller Strayhorn Statement On Foster Care Abuse
"If you compare the number of deaths of children in our state's population to the number of deaths in our state's foster care system, a child is four times more likely to die in our state's foster care system.
"Based on Fiscal 2004 data provided by the Health and Human Services Commission, about 100 children received treatment for poisoning from medications; 63 foster children received medical treatment for rape that occurred while in the foster care system; and 142 children gave birth while in the state foster care system.
"As alarming as these cases are, we can only imagine how much worse the Fiscal 2005 data is because Gov. Perry's Health and Human Services Commission has refused to provide the data needed to complete my investigation.
psssst... it's me, interjecting... there is a nasty little political war going on here
EAST TEXAS CASEWORKERS ROTATE IN POLYGAMY CASE
“The largest child-custody cases in history and it's filled with issues few Texas lawyers and public agencies have ever faced. It also comes at a time that's likely bad for Child Protective Services because just last week, Texas was ordered to pay a four-million dollar fine for not seeing foster children enough.
And now - social workers from all around the state are heading to San Angelo - taking case workers off other tasks.”
Foster care quick fix is adding up
Housing youths in CPS offices doubles the bill; no end in sight to crisis
The system absolutely is dysfunctional right now," said Irene Clements, vice president for family services at Lutheran Social Services of the South Inc., the state's largest foster-care contractor. "And a big part of that is the divisions of [the state Department of Family and Protective Services] are not working together; at times, they're working against one another," said Ms. Clements, a 27-year foster parent. Mr. Crimmins said CPS is doing all it can to ease the crisis.
"We're scouring the state every single day to try to find appropriate placements for each of these kids," he said. "There's not anything that's off the table as far as consideration."(*me again--- do you know one consideration is "campsights or such group facilities?)
To date, more than 450 children have spent nearly 900 nights in CPS offices because there was no place else for them to go. CPS caseworkers have to watch them in four-hour shifts through the night. Overtime pay for the workers is the biggest factor in the increased cost of care.
At least twice recently, the emergency arrangement has led to violence. On May 30, a melee broke out at CPS' main Dallas office. It took seven police officers to restore order. Three teens were arrested. Earlier in May, a CPS worker in Tarrant County was injured during a similar altercation among two foster teens who were spending the night at a state office.
The children involved are some of the hardest cases CPS sees. Some 76 percent of the foster kids are ages 11 to 18, and half have been through at least 11 foster-care placements.
"These are very, very difficult kids with a lot of issues," Mr. Crimmins said, citing mental retardation, mental illness and severe emotional problems. "They are for the most part very difficult to place. ... Most have been in the system for quite some time."
I promise you... this is the tip of the iceberg.
I encourage you to "really" do homework on this issue.
Until you have looked into the eyes of a little girl so ravenously raped that her insides have to be repaired, including her intestines, I don't want to hear your pathetic erronous percentages. One is too many... even if that is .00001%.
Removing a breastfed infant from a mother who is willing to leave the "ranch"... anything it takes... is straight out of the Chineese handbook. Hell yeah I'm gonna stand up against that crap.
“I am so furious and disgusted at this suggestion it is making my blood boil!”
Perhaps you could suggest a group that the FLDS members would find more acceptable.
Here’s a suggestion. The judge doesn’t have to comply, just take the infants and go on. Not being breastfed will not kill or hurt the babies. There millions upon millions of perfectly adjusted bottle fed babies.
1st, yldstrk did not declare her gender until later in the thread. Ignorant of this fact I confess to - but my statement was “Any man that claims to know the mind of God is an idiot, a fool, or insufferably arrogant.” In any case, the :man” in my statement refers to “human”, not a specific gender. I stand by the substance of my statement.
2nd, I didn’t have any problem with her “close relationship to God”. I had a problem with “God wouldn’t want this kind of sick set up believe me.”
As to the meat of my disagreement, read your Bible. God tolerated, in some cases demanded, behavior that would quickly see you shunned or jailed today.
I hate to see someone claim to know every detail of what God wants, or what God will accept.
Thanks, FRiend. Others here seem to disagree.
Are you trying to tell me that their location determines if they have rights?
It disturbs me that the very same people who rag on the LSM about inaccuracies and poor and biased reporting are swallowing every single line they are being fed by the very same LSM.
Even the LDS people don't call their church "the Mormon church" so we have to presume they might have even figured that part out too.
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