Posted on 04/21/2008 6:19:21 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
SAN ANGELO, Texas — A judge wants attorneys representing FLDS mothers and children to ask local LDS congregations if they would be willing to "provide a buffer" for FLDS members who wish to pray in groups at a temporary shelter. Judge Barbara Walther made the decision late Monday afternoon at a hearing to address three issues brought by attorneys representing mothers of children who remain in a state shelter. A total of 416 children were removed from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch earlier this month as part of a child-abuse investigation.
The group of mothers filed court papers earlier Monday demanding their rights to pray in private without having a Texas Department of Family and Protective Services worker overseeing them. They also filed a motion asking the judge to allow them to stay with their nursing children and asked for access to telephones to communicate with their attorneys.
Addressing the concerns about prayer, Walther said she was aware of a community of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in San Angelo. While acknowledging LDS Church members are not from the same group, she asked attorneys to see if the LDS faith would be willing to monitor the prayer services of the women and children who remain in the shelter.
"How would I stop someone from practicing their faith?" the judge asked. She acknowledged concerns from Texas child welfare authorities about improper communications between mothers and children that could occur in such private prayer times and have an affect on the pending investigations.
"If they cross the line or coach the child or make any kind of comment on litigation, all bets are off," Walther said.
The president of the LDS Abilene Texas Stake, which oversees San Angelo, was surprised by the judge's request.
"They think we're the same ones because we use the Book of Mormon," said Charles L. Webb. "I'm dumbfounded they would suggest that."
Webb plans to contact church headquarters in Salt Lake City for guidance.
The judge did say if that fails, she would look at other options.
Regarding breast-feeding, the judge said attorneys ad litem should be working with Texas child protective services workers in mediation to solve that problem, declining to consider the motion to order that nursing mothers remain in the shelter with their children.
Last week, mothers of children over 4 years old were separated from their children and sent back to their homes. Texas child welfare officials have said the mothers that remain with their young children in the temporary shelters will eventually be separated as foster families and foster homes are located.
On the issue of the FLDS women and children being allowed contact with attorneys, the judge ordered eight phone lines to be set up — six for the children and two for the mothers — with 24-hour access to their attorneys.
Lawyers for Department of Family and Protective Services said they had already set up the phone lines earlier Monday.
At the end of the hearing, an attorney asked the judge to consider her motion to stop the separation of mothers from their children. The judge said she hadn't seen the motion, noting that she had a large stack of motions to go over.
When the attorney pressed her to consider it immediately, Walther stood up and announced, "Ladies and gentleman, this hearing is concluded," and abruptly left the bench.
In the motion, attorney Andrea Sloan asked the judge to allow the women and children 30 minutes in the morning and again at night to pray in private. "Without exception, respondent mothers have reported that the department will not let them pray without being monitored by the department," Sloan wrote.
Attorneys were also pushing to keep a group of nursing mothers from being separated from their children, pending the results of DNA testing currently under way in San Angelo. "Some of respondent mothers are currently parenting children under the age of 2 years of age and are still breast-feeding," the motion stated.
The women's attorneys also filed motions arguing that when cell phones were taken from the women, they lost the ability to communicate effectively with their clients. The cell phones were taken the day after members of the FLDS Church inside the Fort Concho shelter spoke out to the Deseret News, complaining of cramped conditions.
The women provided the Deseret News with photographs taken by a cell phone to show the conditions. Shortly afterward, they were all moved to the San Angelo Coliseum, where some of the children have remained.
The motions were filed in 51st District Court today by attorneys for Charlotte Johnson, Suzanne Johnson, Sarah Johnson, Angela Harker and other mothers of children taken from the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado.
Authorities began collecting DNA samples Monday morning from children taken from the ranch, the Texas Attorney General's Office said.
The children were to be given a cheek swab, then photographed and fingerprinted. They have each been assigned a number to identify them and the sample they gave.
"We began the process this morning and anticipate working on this throughout the week," said Janece Rolfe, a spokeswoman for the Texas attorney general. "It will be about 30 days to receive results, maybe a little longer."
Judge Barbara Walther signed court papers this morning ordering the DNA samples.
"The Court finds that an unknown number of males of reproductive age reside, or have resided, at the ranch during the probable time of conception of one or more of the children the subject of this suit," her order says. "The court further finds that an unknown number of females of child bearing age reside, or have resided at the ranch and could be the mother of one or more children the subject of this suit."
The order lists the hundreds of names of parents and children that are known at the YFZ Ranch, including FLDS leader Warren Jeffs, who it lists as being in "prison."
The parents on the YFZ Ranch are expected to show up at the Schleicher County Memorial Building in Eldorado on Tuesday to give a DNA sample. At the makeshift shelter at the San Angelo Coliseum and the Cal Farley Boy's Ranch, where the FLDS children have been staying since they were taken into state custody, children were giving samples.
The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services said it is still having trouble identifying individual children and who their parents are.
"We're still not getting names," said child protective services spokesman Greg Cunningham. "We don't know who are siblings, mothers, fathers."
The raid on the YFZ Ranch was prompted by a phone call to a San Angelo family crisis center from a 16-year-old girl who claimed she was abused, pregnant and married to a 50-year-old man. Authorities have not been able to identify her, but said that when they went onto the ranch to investigate the complaint they found signs of other children being abused.
That led to the judge's order removing all 416 children from the ranch. Last week, Walther ordered that all children will remain in state custody.
Once the DNA samples are gathered, Cunningham said they will move forward with placing the children in foster care.
"We've got some of the placements lined up, but we're still waiting for some guidance from the court," he said.
Child protective services said the children will be kept in groups, including teenage mothers with their children and siblings grouped together. The children would likely not be going to a typical foster home, Cunningham said.
"It's a home-type setting. A majority of them would go to a residential facility," he said. "There are several different options out there."
Authorities refused to discuss how the children would be transitioned from the San Angelo Coliseum to foster care because of security reasons.
Outside the coliseum today, the police presence has been heavy. Texas state troopers, Tom Green County sheriff's deputies, San Angelo police and unmarked patrol cars have all been seen circling the large parking lot surrounding the building.
The real problem is the deception on the part of the mothers.
“I’ve stopped bothering, and will let the state’s own “star witness” do my talking. “
Thanks for that post. I also agree completely with the state’s star witness. Too bad this little tyrant of a judge wasn’t wise enough to heed his advice. Every state has some child “protectors” who are so rabid they have no clue when their actually harming children.
I agree with you that it is condemned... but even this week I heard a Utah Representative arguing that all of this polygamy wasn’t that big of a deal! At times I think that the fabric of Mormon life is so convoluted that they have to give lip service to denouncing this or that that their church or prophet has done in the past, while they extoll their church’s wonders. It reminds me of Romney trying to underplay his family’s polygamist past. It just rang hollow when he tried.
“I just think the notion several had last night that few if any of the kids knew who their parents were was just assuming the worst with no real basis for it.”
When the truth is kept from people, they usually suspect the worst.
The members of the FLDS (well, most of them anyway) are trying to hide the truth.
The LE and CPS are trying to find out the truth.
We will see who wins.
The Book of Mormon (in no uncertain terms) prohibits and condemns polygamy. The LDS Church wishes that it could live under Doctrine and Covenants section 132 without the constraints of the US Government.
Either that, or they wish their prophet would just come out and issue a new revelation completely removing that section from their scriptures.
Frankly I think the LDS Heriarchy would like nothing more than to remove section 132 from their scriptures, but since God hasn't really spoken to an LDS Prophet since Joseph Smith, they might have a problem there. So they are left with a "Manifesto"; A "general consensus" that whatever they it is that they preach now, despite the fact that it is in direct contradiction to Doctrine and Covenants section 132, is the direction that God wants them to go.... until further notice.
“It’s like they suddenly dropped off the face of the internet.”
Who can blame them?
“It’s going to be tough solving this puzzle with maybe 1/2 of the pieces missing or in various complexes throughout the country. “
Yes. That is a very good point.
Too bad some demand instant proof, instant arrests, or just let the children go.
Large scale processes such as this, take time, and must be done very carefully to ensure the law is followed, and no one’s rights are violated.
It is like walking a tightrope, for the LE, CPS, and JUDGE.
Especially with all the apparent misunderstanding the general public has about the facts in the case.
I think the age of consent for marriage with parents approval is 16.
“When the truth is kept from people, they usually suspect the worst.”
You often leap to the next emotional level when responding. Your response had little to do with my comments, but were just an opportunity for you to expound on your opinions if anyone doesn’t agree with you 1000%.
“When the truth is kept from people, they usually suspect the worst.”
You often leap to the next emotional level when responding. Your response had little to do with my comments, but were just an opportunity for you to expound on your opinions if anyone doesn’t agree with you 1000%.
Of course, that is not at the FLDS ranch. That was within the Texas Foster Care system in 2004.
"In 2004, noted Strayhorn, 38 foster children were killed; 48 were killed the following year. In addition, "about 100 children received treatment for poisoning from medications; 63 foster children received medical treatment for rape that occurred while in the foster care system; and 142 children gave birth while in the state foster care system."
That kind of thing doesn’t work for me, when we bust a cult that practices child rape as part of their sick, twisted, illegal, religious reason for existence, and someone says, Hey man! it is even worse to pull those kids out, we better just let the practice live on and avert our eyes.
Well, like I said that doesn’t carry much weight with me, I’m only surprised that sane people try to sell that kind of nonsense.
I agree with you.
I think we’ve got some cowardly ninny’s that are so scared of the government’s shadow that they would rather see little girls put back into abusive situations than to have the government intervene.
But there were 32,000 kids in foster care. So even assuming the above are mutually exclusive sets, that's 200/32000 = 0.6% odds in foster care.
Now let's look at the FLDS. We know at least 6 kids had underage pregnancy out of 400. But that sounds like the tip of the iceberg. But even at that, that's 1.5%.
With our limited knowledge, a kid is at least 2.5 times more likely to be raped or give birth in FLDS than in foster care.
Plus one initial report I saw last weekend was identification of 10 women who had given birth as minors.
Well it was only 45 years ago that 40% of Mormons would say they would enter into polygamy if told to by their "prophet." You still have that lingering "if the 'prophet' says so, we'll do it."
Your response had nothing to do with my comments,
The children were to be given a cheek swab, then photographed and fingerprinted. They have each been assigned a number to identify them and the sample they gave.
First thing that came to mind...
Fortunately, the FLDS don't have to worry about getting executed and cremated like the Branch Davidians and the Nazi victims.
The MDS sufferers are out in force!
“Fortunately, the FLDS don’t have to worry about getting executed and cremated “
Then why did they have a crematorium built, when they purchased the large estate they are all living on?
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