Posted on 04/18/2008 7:34:25 PM PDT by Chief Engineer
C.'s Attorney General Wally Oppal has confirmed that some of the 416 children taken by authorities from a polygamist compound in Texas, are Canadian.
Oppal said officials in Ottawa gave him the news.
His statement came after Angie Voss, of Texas child protection services, said during a custody hearing in Texas on Friday that some of the children we from Canada, though she gave no details about how many were there, or how old they were.
The large group of children were seized from the compound after allegations of sexual and physical abuse were made, including forcing underage girls to marry men several times their age.
Oppal told The Canadian Press he had been alerted that some Canadians were involved. He said government officials would be getting involved, though it wasn't clear what their role would be.
Oppal said officials gave him the news because there is also a polygamist compound in Bountiful, B.C., and members have close ties to their American counterparts.
"This has been an issue for quite some time in that it has been said that at Bountiful there are said to be some Americans there as well," Oppal said.
"It sort of adds another dimension to the problem here. That is, that people move in and out of these communities and it's sometimes difficult to find out who's where and what."
Oppal said the call from Ottawa was "giving us a heads up because they know that we're involved in that same issue here."
Unprecedented ruling
In an unprecedented ruling, the judge in the case has ordered that all children in the case will remain in state custody.
The court heard that at least five of the children who are under 18 already have had children of their own.
The children were taken from an Eldorado, Texas compound which belonged to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
The children, most of whom are being kept in a domed coliseum in San Angelo, range in age from 6 months to 17 years. About 130 are under 4 years old, Voss said.
Voss said that the children are taught "...no age too young to be married."
She added that there is "...a culture of young girls being pregnant by older men."
The court has heard that the girls would have little ability to say no.
Psychiatrist Bruce Perry said a child raised to be absolutely obedient would have, "the independent thinking of a much younger child."
Polygamous marriage is a central tenet for members of the religious sect.
The sect is led by their prophet, Warren Jeffs. Formerly on the FBI's most wanted list, the leader has been convicted and jailed for being an accomplice of rape by forcing a 14-year-old girl to marry her 19-year-old cousin.
He is now awaiting trial on other charges in Arizona. The sect came to West Texas in 2003, moving from its traditional home along the Utah-Arizona state line. Voss said the ranch was considered a special place, the sect's Zion.
Authorities raided the 1,700 acre raid after a call from someone identifying herself as a 16-year-old girl on the ranch. The girls said she was beaten and raped by her 50-year-old husband.
The girl has yet to be identified, though Voss said a girl matching her description was seen by other girls in the ranch garden four days before the raid began.
They have to be careful or they will be up on charges before a human rights tribunal.
I am conflicted by this, as I have doubts about the media reporting, and the govt’s accusations, and the words of the FLDS. I frankly think the people look odd. I know it is wrong to harm a child. I know I am glad the State of Texas did this instead of the BATF or the FBI.
Thanks for the info. Hard to believe they can get by with this and have not been stopped. Some here complain that it violates the offenders rights but I think the law has been protecting them too long. Past time for laws to be enforced. This is not a religion its a scam.Massive welfare fraud and molestation of minors.
“Not sure where you get “the complaintant the state replied upon turns out to be a fraud” as a fact. That’s far from proven.”
Let’s put it this way. They met with Barlow (the alleged perp) and did not arrest him. They met with Swinton (the alleged hoax caller) and arrested her.
“No, the state had probable cause to look into it, “
Look into it yes. But take into custody all the children from an entire community? You can’t be serious. There is absolutely no probable cause to execute this act of terrorism against women and children. No complaintant has come forward. No complaintant (besides an DFCS employee) has signed any complaint nor made any complaint to the court from the beginning and up to now. NO COMPLAINTANT!!!
“The judge approved this according to the evidence presented in accordance with the law.
What law and what evidence? The alleged original complaintant has failed to reveal herself much less come forward. She never signed any affadavit. Who then is the complaintant? We have no victim. This is now a fishing expedition to find a victim.
Ping
So you'd turn over ANY child to ANY woman who wants to claim her (I say "her" because there aren't many boys)? Now THAT would be highly illegal in Texas or any other state. You can't just give children to anyone who wants them. You have to have some kind of proof that you're the legal parent or guardian.
Separation of church and state still a fundamental tenet of the American system.
The media reports have said that 5 of the underaged girls are pregnant, and 10 of the women were pregnant when they were minors. Wanna explain why you're defending these pedophiles? Do you also defend the small % of Roman Catholic priest abusers & educator-abusers?
And if you're really so concerned about the separation of these kids from their parents, I'm sure you've weighed in to ask about where all the boys are. Of the 416 children, only 24 are males. That's a ratio of 5% males; 95% females. Where are the rest of these lost boys? Why have they been separated from their parents? For how many years has this separation gone on? Are boys routinely taken not just away when they become competitor teens to the older men who have their eyes on young girls, but are they now being taken away earlier than that?
Who is parenting them? Why are the whiners who are highlighting this parental separation only speaking out about it now? Where were their voices when these boys were removed from these, as you put it, bizarro American parents.
Why is this sex discrimination going on? Where are the feminists, who speak out against sex discrimination, when you need them?
This whole thing is frightening.
Who out there can defend this?
I am almost beginning to wonder if many of the mothers do not know which children are theirs, since they are moved around so much. It reminds me of what was described with slavery back in the 1800s.
Sorry but I find this belief scary. The way I read this you believe the state should be able to ask anyone are these your children and take them till proof (DNA) is done that lets the state keep any kid they want for 6-8 weeks
The state in my mind should be the one which must prove a child is not yours and only do that after there is a reason to doubt the relationship.
So if I would like to have a child of my own, I can just walk in and say, “That one’s mine” and they should hand her over to me? Just like that? Even though that child is the natural child of another mother? Such a deal.
No if someone claims to be the parent of another's child they should have to have proof and give it to law enforcement and let them investigate it and if the claim is false the person making it should be put in jail for making false report.
My point is I do not want this to be used as a precedence for just the thing you stated where the state can just take children and assign them without any due process.
Can you understand that or you so caught up with emotions and hatred of this group the Constitution and the rights of the rest of do not matter.
The rights DO matter, and that is why they are being so careful to make sure that each child is released into the correct hands.
And should from the start the cps grabbed these kids on at best questionable grounds and may be on illegal grounds
not too long ago cps claimed the right to search houses without a search warrant they were not law enforcement and if you refused their search they would have the sheriff come and arrest you and take your kids it took years and millions of dollars and a trip all the way to supreme court to stop that
the way they went at this they have picked a despicable group to try to get some of that back and work at taking away what we won in court will they now use this to go after home schoolers, Amish or who next
There were NO questionable grounds. At least learn the facts, Mouser. There was a complaint. It had to be investigated. Any complaint about child abuse HAS to be investigated, depending on which state, within 24-48 hours, some states might vary. To investigate properly, the children (possible victims) must be separated from the adults (possible abusers). The children and the adults have to be questioned to see if there is anything to the allegations. That’s standard.
The problems with THIS group is that (a) there are so many of them and (b) they refuse to say what their names are, who their children are, and other really basic information. So now the investigation has to include DNA tests to see which, if any of these mothers, should be reunited with a child or children.
The thing is, if everyone is squeaky clean and all the allegations were false, these adults would have already been reunited with any offspring that were truly theirs simply by producing birth certificates and other information to prove they were the natural parents. But no, they chose not to cooperate, so now they’re essentially in a mess of their own making.
That said, I do NOT for an instant think they are squeaky clean and I suspect the allegations we’ve heard, and some we might not have yet, are true. But I used that just for the sake of the example.
Yes and that from an anonymous phone call to a abuse hot line that as yet they do not know if the call was actually made or not by someone who they cannot find about a man who can prove he was not at ranch
if they would of checked where call came from and interviewed the man the call came in on they would of had no reason to from there.
but no grab a bunch of children with a search warrant based on a crank call
“The good news is soon these children and their parents will be indoctrinated into secular mainstream america to learn what is proper. “
I am glad to see so many apologists for Warren Jeffs. It isn’t like there isn’t a hundred year history of what is going on here, much less the 1953 raids during the Eisenhower administration.
But, this gives me hope that I can form my own cult, composed of the children of the apologists I find here on Free Republic. I’m sure you are all ready to look the other way and sell your children into servitude because “there’s no current evidence it’s harmful.”
MS, I don’t disagree with you that this particular religion, on the whole, goes against my faith, and how I feel we are freed as Christians under Grace. They distort for power and are victimizing children, most likely.
BUT, in the US, we have a unique set of RIGHTS, given by the Constitution. Some are freedom of religion, freedom from warrantless search and seizures.
Both of those were violated, by Government entities. Period. If I took the kids of every family out there that I disagreed with how they were being raised, well, I would be a Government in my size and scope. It is very scary, this road we are going down.
You mentioned investigation. You are right, they should have investigated. They didn’t. They went in an seized the children. They have been itching to get this group for a long time and jumped at any accusation as an excuse to run in, guns blazing, so to speak.
This should really scare you. I feel for those kids, but as a private citizen, in a country where I think I have some fundamental rights to privacy, religion, etc., I am scared that this will set a precedence for me to be next.
You have to separate emotions about the supposed abuse of these girls (again, INNOCENT until proven guilty, one of those sticky rights, I have), with the need to protect our rights.
Putting this situation into that framework, the Government trampled my constitutional rights when they acted in this way against this compound.
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